environmentalism is recycled communism and nazism

[KYGOTC]

 Cheap  propaganda tricks . And karma to Tars...Reisman obviously has a personal agenda he's pushing ...but a Goebbels he's not. American's are not as as easily brainwashed as post WWI Germans were.

 

I dunno, man. People seem to beleive whatever the government tells them or whatever the mainstream is.
Or atleast MOST people seem that way.

[lester1/2jr]

zapranoth-  it's just trying to be eye catching.  I am sorry to environmentalists who were offended.  ethics, as you may have noticed, aren't really my strong suit.




also, I saw a guy on C Span last inght who was literally say that the earth is too populous and we have to do something abuot this or thelittle squirr-elz will suffer.

[Ed, Ego and Superego]

What offends me, Lester, is that this thread is unadorned flame-bait, and you're trying to pretend that it's not.

Actually, I'm surprised at the high level of discourse going on here.  No one has quoted Rush Limbaugh, or Ralph Nader, or is preaching or getting too personal.   This is a class showing.  I hate dinks who flame online just to get attention.  So lets keep the bar up, please?
-Ed

[Captain Tars Tarkas]

you are taking the title too literally.  it's a very very short piece.  he's simplly saying that if you are an environmentalist and want to put out less carbon do so.  the rest of us have free will and wil assess the situation for ourselves.

That is not what he is saying.  Let's let the man himself say what he is saying:

It is true that many American businessmen, some of them extremely talented and successful, now call themselves “environmentalists” and are stumbling over themselves in a race to prove how “green” they are. In the early 1930s, many talented and successful German businessmen did essentially the same thing when they began to call themselves “Nazis” and raced to prove their devotion to National Socialism. It’s possible for people to be geniuses in one area of their lives and fools, or worse, in other areas. In any event, the outcome for the German businessmen, and for all other talented individuals who joined either the Nazis or the Communists, was that they ended up as accomplices of mass murderers. The same will be true in the United States, if the environmentalists succeed in imposing their agenda.

That hardly sounds like "live and let live" to me.  The man is pushing an agenda, an doing so in the most offensive way possible because he is unable to make a rational argument against environmentalism.  I tend to ignore people of all political stripes who fling around the Nazi term, as should anyone else.  Be you against environmentalists, George W. Bush, Hillary, or reruns of According to Jim, resorting to cheap name calling is the realm of the school play yard. 

[indianasmith]

I decided some time ago that, even though I love nature and try to be a good steward of the earth, to avoid the term environmentalist with reference to myself.  There are too many nutjobs crowded under that umbrella these days.  I am a proud CONSERVATIONIST - I believe in the sensible use of renewable resources and the preservation of nature as far as human needs allow it.  I believe the earth was made for man, not man for the earth - but I also believe that as earth's masters, we will be held accountable for our stewardship of it.  This is our home, and we need to take care of it - but we also need to take care of our children and their descendants.

[Zapranoth]

I think the last post is the best one yet in this thread.

Look, the discourse has been good, but perhaps introducing a piece without any real introduction (ie, "what do y'all think of this article?") is as good as saying "here is something I wholeheartedly endorse."  At least, that's a reasonable assumption to make under current internet etiquette.

I agree with what was just said -- I would say I'm a "conservationist," certainly not an environmentalist nutjob -- but is it actually reasonable or productive to make comparisons to Nazi Germany?    It's awkward at the very least, and probably flame-bait with the right nuance (or lack thereof).

I will shut up now and leave the thread, but lester -- next time, you might say something besides just quoting the article.  Even "discuss."  Otherwise, the implied commentary might be taken as "I wish I had written this."   Which may or may not be exactly what you mean.

[CheezeFlixz]

I decided some time ago that, even though I love nature and try to be a good steward of the earth, to avoid the term environmentalist with reference to myself.  There are too many nutjobs crowded under that umbrella these days.  I am a proud CONSERVATIONIST - I believe in the sensible use of renewable resources and the preservation of nature as far as human needs allow it.  I believe the earth was made for man, not man for the earth - but I also believe that as earth's masters, we will be held accountable for our stewardship of it.  This is our home, and we need to take care of it - but we also need to take care of our children and their descendants.

Amen Indy, responsible conservation without radical environmentalism. Don't little, recycle when you can, conserve when possible and don't be wasteful. As I've said and you've said be a good steward.

[lester1/2jr]

tars-  that's not from the piece I posted though.  i mean, let's be fair.  i think that is taking his anaology too far btw, the stuff abut german businessmen.

[RCMerchant]

tars-  that's not from the piece I posted though.  i mean, let's be fair.  i think that is taking his anaology too far btw, the stuff abut german businessmen.

 in defense of Tars...it IS from the same authour...George Reisman...and from the same blog-!

  http://georgereisman.com/blog/2008/02/word-to-environmentalists.html
So I wouldn't say it's unfair at all!  Reisman just expanded on what he already stated.

And being a follower of Ayn Rand-an egoist-he's basically 'all for the good of ME...and f#ck you." -To put it in it's bare bones.
 It's a selfish philosophy.

[lester1/2jr]

same blog and author but not the same piece.  actually I got it from mises.org


I don't know if he is specifically an ayn rand follower.  I myself  am constantly told that i am one though I've never read any of her books and have no desire too.

but you raise an interesting point:   basically, that we need to flagellate ourselves  because something awful , like global warming, will happen if we don't.  that we should always ask for less.  I say: ask for more!!!

[Captain Tars Tarkas]

Yes, Reisman himself took his agenda too far.  It is just more of the same Randian fear of anything that may stand in the way of big business doing whatever it wants because business can do no wrong.  (and he specifically cites Ayn Rand in the masthead of his blog)

As for asking for more, that is what I do.  I ask for more clean environments.  I ask for more corporate responsibility.  I ask for more responsible government.  I ask for more for my children and my children's children so they can enjoy nature like I did.  I ask to not be called a Nazi because I advocate not littering or higher fuel standards.  And I do more than ask, I actively work to make sure that's the case.  And some guy calling me names on his blog isn't going to stop me.

[lester1/2jr]

"It is just more of the same Randian fear of anything that may stand in the way of big business doing whatever it wants because business can do no wrong. "

yes.  I made the same point about 3 pages ago.  that environmentalism and libertarianism are clasing on this issue because to a libertarian capitalism is like a religion and too the environmentalist   (in both cases these are generalizations obviously)  capitallism must be bad and must be the culprit for whatever is going wrong.  to us libertarians, usually the state is the culprit.  of course,  9 times out of ten it is the state!! 

so it's easy to be cynical about initiatives at the state level  because they are almost always the reesult of special intersts and oppurtunism. 


also,  we tend to reject nationalist sort of "let's all get in the spirit of.." this or that.

so hether it's war or environmentalism we are like totally suspicious.


remember how gung ho everyone was for iraq?  or how they are for darfur now?

no and no i say.


no no no

[Patient7]

I think the environment wouldn't be as bad, but oil companies have patents on most fuel efficiency improvements for cars, yeah, lets blame them.