Islam

[trekgeezer]

At his death Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses, which was a covenant made with the Hebrews not with Christians. So Jesus does trump the Old Testament for Christians. 

[Scott]

Most of what I said about the Koran was more of a historical belief thing, but to be totally honest about Islamic people. Back in the 80's I had many Islamic friends while in the Taxi business in Atlantic City. My best friends were from Egypt and these people where the most personally honest people I have ever met. They were quite possibly my best friends I ever had. When I was young I had many American friends, but I tell you the truth these people recognize and appreciate good people and they return like actions. I was always very impress by them all. I'm speaking more specifically about the Egyptians. Though I had many Islamic friends from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iran, Syria, Palestine, and Afghanistan who were also good people. It was the Egyptians that would do anything for me as far as friendship goes and I dare say I have never had the same feeling from my own culture. In the end they gained nothing from me except my friendship and respect and many eventually moved on as most of them were engineers moving towards Virginia. When they left they gave me an excellent copy of and Arabic/English Koran. Some of the Koran verses are very beautiful and the psychology of the text is unique, but that doesn't necessarily convey truth.

[indianasmith]

I have known many good and decent Muslims and was good friends with a Muslim couple that lived in the apartment next to ours in college.  Still, the teachings of the Quran do encourage religious violence, and Islam spread by conquest from the get-go.  The violent forced conversions did not creep into Christianity until the Church abandoned the clear teachings of Scripture in the Middle Ages.

As far as the Quranic teachings on the New Testament, they hold that the original injil (teachings) of Jesus, as recorded in the first gospels, were accurate, but that they were corrupted and distorted in order to turn Jesus, the Prophet of God, into Jesus, the Son of God (Of course, there is no evidence of tampering or additions to the original manuscripts, see my earlier post on textual accuracy). They also claim that the Gospel of Barnabas, a 7th Century text that no reputable Bible scholar regards as authentic, is actually the original account.  Most secular and Christian scholars recognize that the Gospel of Barnabas was a Muslim text authored sometime after Muhammad's death in 632 AD to give a Muslim version of Jesus' life.

I guess the one thing that is the hardest for most liberal-thinking Americans to accept is that not all religions can be true at the same time.  If Muhammad was a prophet, then Jesus cannot be the Son of God, and if Jesus was the Son of God, then Muhammad was no prophet . .  . or at least, not a prophet of God.

[ER]

To say that all religions are equally true, even when their tenets clearly contradict one another, has long puzzled me. It can be argued, I suppose, that all religions probably have an equal shot at being The One True Faith, but at the same time how can more than one be completely and unerringly true? Impossible.

I have a close friend who has flirted with becoming a member of the Baha'i faith, and while I respect his choice and see much that is good in Baha'i, the Baha'i doctrine that all religions are equally valid as pathways to the divine doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Relating to indy's comments on how so many fail to perceive that the universality of truth when it comes in contradictory form is an impossibility, it's also surprisingly difficult for those who have come of age in the era of "embrace diversity" to come out and call something evil, even when it clearly is. I'm not calling Islam evil, here, but I've noticed a trend among those my age and slightly younger to extend tolerance to Islamic-sponsored acts of violence and repression, all because it has been instilled in an entire generation that others who differ from us must be respected for those differences, no matter what.

[clockworkcanary]

All I know is they can't all be right but they can all be wrong 

[indianasmith]

That comes back to my comments on the Resurrection (see my Easter thread).  The reason I am a Christian is because the Resurrection proved to me that the claims made by Jesus of Nazareth about being the Son of God are all true.  The historical evidence for the Resurrection is really overwhelming, when you begin to dig into it.

On the other hand, when it comes to Muhammad, there is never any proof given that he was a prophet - just his own self-justifying claims.  In fact, he even says at one point that the Quran itself is miracle enough, and refused to give any further signs.  The stories that do have Muhammad performing miracles are all from the later Hadith, which were composed anwhere from one to four CENTURIES after his death.  Even some Muslim scholars question their historical accuracy.

[Trevor]

  Very interesting topic, Ash. 

When I was still at college in the late 1980's, my church youth group leader took a call the one day: it was the Imam of the Pretoria Mosque who invited him and us to come and visit them when we had a church meeting again. Laurence (our leader) told the Imam that we had ladies in our group and as far as he knew, women were not allowed in the mosque. The Imam burst out laughing and asked Laurence where he had heard that, as women were most welcome in that mosque in particular: the Imam went further to say that women were the most precious of God's creatures.

We went and enjoyed an hour of fellowship with them and yes, the ladies were most welcome there. I learnt a lot: I never knew that Muslims consider my God to be a prophet of theirs and that they believe in the Virgin Mary and the virgin birth.

One of our national sports heroes is a chap named Hashim Amla who is a devout Muslim: you can see this by his shaved head and long beard. He cannot drink alcohol at all, so the "Castle Beer" advertising logo that appears on the shirts of the other players does not appear on his. Nice guy: he also stated that his long beard is to honour the prophets Mohammed, Jesus and Moses. 

[Scott]

Yes, Islam does indeed hold the highest regard towards the Virgin Mary. Higher than even more than our bible Christians honor her. There is a Islamic Iman/Cleric in India who wrote a book on how Jesus is superior to Mohamed as far as being a prophet is concerned. Islam also believes that Jesus will return in the end just as Christians do, except they believe Him to be a prophet and not the Son Of God which He is according to my faith.

By the way the Catholic Church is reporting that Islam now out numbers Catholics. See news story below.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/muslims-outnumber-worlds-catholics/20080330161309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

[ER]

A shame all that good will Moslems (again Farsi pronunciation) have toward the Virgin Mary doesn't extend to ordinary women, who in most Moslem countries cannot drive cars, vote, own property, have equal access to education, and in many cases marry whom they wish, seek redress before the courts in the event of spousal abuse, have representative standing under law, or even, despite the liberalism of the mosque cited above, enter holy ground on equal terms with a man in order to make obeisance to their god.

[Scott]

A shame all that good will Moslems (again Farsi pronunciation) have toward the Virgin Mary doesn't extend to ordinary women, who in most Moslem countries cannot drive cars, vote, own property, have equal access to education, and in many cases marry whom they wish, seek redress before the courts in the event of spousal abuse, have representative standing under law, or even, despite the liberalism of the mosque cited above, enter holy ground on equal terms with a man in order to make obeisance to their god.

Very true. No doubt the treatment of their women is the most abhorant situation in Islam. This is actually worst than the terrorism in my opinion. All of those nations forfeit their sovereignty by this very crime.