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April 19, 2014, 10:47:36 AM
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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Canada abolishes free speech. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Canada abolishes free speech.  (Read 9119 times)
Chopper
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« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2008, 03:13:02 PM »

Very odd, I have French-Canadian ancestry, and it's to my understanding that a lot of French immigrated to Canada to escape religious and political persecution and to farm and practice their Catholic faith in peace.

At least you can still toke up there LOL every country has it's ups and downs i guess!
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clockworkcanary
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« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2008, 03:13:46 PM »

And I'm not sure why you keep going on about the bible being the divine word of God?

Am I imagining things, or are you arguing with somebody who isn't here? It appears you have a specific beef with somebody, but it seems somewhat disconnected from what's being said here.

I'm mostly responding to a few points here and there which mostly and gradually evolved out of other points from before.  Then I get a "lesson" on taking things out of context like I'm reading a passage that just isn't there when it's right there in black and white and I'm the one who's got issues?  I mean, it describes some rather bloodthirsty stuff and I am somehow taking that out of context?  It's missing some crucial moral messages in the NT and somehow that's out of context?  Never dare question anything in the Bible or your a Bible hater right?  I wonder if these scholars put as much effort into any other philisophical writings.

It's common knowledge that most Judo-Christians believe the Bible is the Divine Inspired Word of God...some border on worshiping the book more than Jesus themselves.  And you know it's the word of God; it says it is!  And for those of you who say the NT trumps the OT, well aren't you forgetting about the millions of Jewish people who believe in the OT.

And my question was and still is: who has the right to determine what's still relevant in the OT?

Yes yes, this has gotten far off topic.  Sorry about that.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 03:16:57 PM by clockworkcanary » Logged

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AndyC
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« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2008, 03:18:36 PM »

Whoops, seems I missed something while I was typing.

Nobody is talking about a "magic decoder ring." We're talking about historical context.

And the New Testament does not trump the laws of the Old Testament because of the ressurection, it does so because Jesus advocated a different way of doing things from what the religious establishment followed - Old Testament law. But people have twisted things so that much of the tolerance gets lost. They take the Christian philosophy and the Old Testament laws as it suits them, regardless of contradiction. Those are your "cafeteria Christians."
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AndyC
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« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2008, 03:19:43 PM »

Ack! It happened again! This thread moves too fast! I'm going to say from a Christian point of view, that the New Testament should override the Old whenever the two disagree, although not everyone sees it that way.

As to who has the right to decide such things, everybody does. And if somebody can convince enough people of their interpretation, you have a new religion. Been going on as long as religion itself.

But we are getting off topic. This is just so interesting.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 03:27:03 PM by AndyC » Logged

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ulthar
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« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2008, 03:23:45 PM »

Okay, I'm done with this discussion.

Clockwork,

I don't particularly like having insults flung at me for simply trying to offer my perspective - a perspective which you have challenged repeatedly as being invalid.  You don't just say it's not YOUR perspective, you say, in effect, no one should have it because you don't agree with it for various reasons.

I have not thrown sideways, barely hidden barbs at you for disagreeing with me.  Nowhere in this thread have I stated that you must believe what I believe or behave how I behave.  I recognize that as a choice you and you alone must make.

Your attitude of superiority on this topic has succeeded.  You have put me off trying to share with you my world view.  You are now free to cultivate the apparent belief you seem to have that Christians have a monopoly on  treating people with disrespect.

I don't believe that being courteous and respectful in discussions should be for Christians alone.  Whether you accept the Christian context of the phrase "Love your Neighbor as Yourself" or not is your business, but perhaps it's not such a bad message.

In other words, this is by "boo" message - not for disagreeing with me, but for the manner you've carried yourself toward 4 different people in the discussion.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 03:27:15 PM by ulthar » Logged

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clockworkcanary
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« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2008, 03:24:14 PM »

Whoops, seems I missed something while I was typing.

"Nobody is talking about a "magic decoder ring." We're talking about historical context."

Sure they are - anytime anyone says "you just can't understand the un-understandable, which usually leads to "you have to have faith first" is essentially what I am talking about -a total cop-out non-answer.  If it's so beyond our understanding why is anyone expected to even bother?

"And the New Testament does not trump the laws of the Old Testament because of the ressurection, it does so because Jesus advocated a different way of doing things from what the religious establishment followed - Old Testament law. But people have twisted things so that much of the tolerance gets lost. They take the Christian philosophy and the Old Testament laws as it suits them, regardless of contradiction. Those are your "cafeteria Christians."

Well I have no real argument there.  But there is no twisting of some of that scripture; it stands on its own as something rather disqusting.  Not something I would be brave enough to try to make sense of or apologize for.
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clockworkcanary
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« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2008, 03:33:30 PM »

"Okay, I'm done with this discussion."

I don't particularly like having insults flung at me for simply trying to offer my perspective - a perspective which you have challenged repeatedly.

I have not thrown sideways, barely hidden barbs at you for disagreeing with me.  Nowhere in this thread have I stated that you must believe what I believe or behave how I behave.  I recognize that as a choice you and you alone must make.

Your attitude of superiority on this topic has succeeded.  You have put me off trying to share with you my world view.  You are now free to cultivate the apparent belief you have that Christians have a monopoly on  treating people with disrespect.

I don't believe that being courteous and respectful in discussions should be for Christians alone.  Whether you accept the Christian context of the phrase "Love your Neighbor as Yourself" or not is your business, but perhaps it's not such a bad message.

In other words, this is by "boo" message - not for disagreeing with me, but for the manner you've carried yourself toward 4 different people in the discussion.

I don't believe I have insulted you at all other than ask difficult questions - I seem to remember quoting a passage that I found rather vile.  Sorry if it's not easily explainable why a god would order Moses to behave in such a way.

-maybe I'm getting confrontational when I'm given halfass non-answers from some others or distractive answers to questions or details avoiding the actual questions I asked.  And carrying on a 4 person pile up should be my complaint but you don't hear me whining.  Just because a billion people believe something doesn't make it true.  At any rate, this is a touchy topic.

True I insulted Indian Smith but it wasn't meant to be mean.  Just because you aren't being persuasive doesn't make me disrespectful.  I just checked and all I responded to you with (unless i missed it) was a quote directly from the Bible that cannot be taken out of context and I am asking you how is it that I am taking such a putrid order from God Almighty and twisting it?  I'm reading it in black and white.  Are you trying to tell me it doesn't say what it says?!   I'm sorry you can't handle your beliefs being scrutinized. 

I don't recall stating anything about Christians being disrespectful.  I addressed mostly specific statements that don't make sense.  Bottom line, people came to this country and it was founded on conquest - those people were making exceptions to their Christian beliefs at the time (as they do now...for any belief).  Other philosophies (god belief or not) have just as sound morality too.

But have a good one anyway.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 03:36:13 PM by clockworkcanary » Logged

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AndyC
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« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2008, 03:34:03 PM »

But in this case, the point is not that we can't understand the scriptures, but to fully understand them, we have to understand the people they were written by and for. Religious scholars spend careers doing just that.

Even some of the barbaric passages can at least be explained by knowing the circumstances behind them. What was going on in that time and place? That can tell you what to make of it, and whether it applies at all today.
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clockworkcanary
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« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2008, 04:10:22 PM »

Ok, I guess it's easy to get worked up talking about the classic touchy subjects of religion and politics.  Sorry if I offended anyone but some things just don't make sense and I never like to let things go. 

But I didn't mean to get so hostile; it's easy to get worked up the more and more things go on.  Indian, I take back what I said man; I'm sure you're a great teacher.  I do apologize for that.  I mean it's not like you're smackin kids in the face, gettin em in headlocks and saying "believe it b***hES!" hehehe.  But seriously, sorry guys.  Sorry to take an interesting discussion and get flared up - damn German blood in me I guess.

I'm gonna go drink a beer.  Anyone else with me?  Cheeze, AndyC, ulthor, Indian, any of ya? 
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ulthar
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« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2008, 04:11:52 PM »

Okay, Clockwork, I'll try to be more specific.  I think I owe you that.

It's a matter of tone. Some examples from your last message:

"I don't believe I have insulted you at all other than ask difficult questions or getting confrontational when I'm given halfass non-answers "

Thanks for saying everything everyone else has said is half assed.  That's why I sorta see it as a "why bother" at this point.

"Just because a billion people believe something doesn't make it true."

No one is arguing "truth" but belief and viewpoint...your comments have been clearly aimed at invalidating my beliefs as stupid and illogical.

Just because you don't understand something (ie, why I believe what I believe) does not mean it is either stupid or illogical.

But there's another insult there as well.  By bringing this up, the size of Christian following, you insinuate that I am just a follower - a sheep.

I don't follow Christianity because anyone else does.  Believe it or not, I have a mind of my own and can make decisions for myself.  Believe it or not, my being Christian is a choice, and one made after many years of atheism.

"Just because you aren't being persuasive doesn't make me disrespectful.  "

That statement on it's face is true enough.

By telling me I'm not being persuasive is to be adopting a position that you are "right" and it is up to me to prove you wrong.  In adopting that attitude, you ARE in fact being disrespectful.

"I just checked and all I responded to you with (unless i missed it) was a quote directly from the Bible"

No, your quoting that passage did not bother me.  Your labeling my statements as "apologetic" along with the decoder ring allusion did.  Such labeling belies an attitude of superiority.  It's a debate tactic I associate with a person with his/her mind closed on the issue being debated.

As for that passage....I'm just done discussing it with you at this time.  I have a TON more I COULD say...but not today.  Maybe we can try again some other time.

"I'm sorry you can't handle your beliefs being scrutinized. "

Nice sideways apology.  I am the one with the problem.  This is akin to saying "I'm sorry you are an a***ole" or "I'm sorry your face is so ugly."

It's not the scrutinization that bothers me.  I love talking about this stuff.  In such debate, I'll probably learn something new.

Besides, I can handle for more stringent debate - and have with some true intellectual giants.  I've been in serious discussions on philosophy, physics and spirituality with Nobel Prize winners and contenders.  So I don't particularly like the assumption you seem to be making that I am too weak to debate this with you.

I have neither the time nor the energy to discuss something with someone who is not going to be convinced of ANY validity to ANYTHING I say.   I don't mean AGREE, I mean acknowledge as a valid viewpoint.  After all, we are talking about belief systems, faith, spirituality and interpretation here, not "what is the mass of that bottle of soda."

What would I waste my time?
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ulthar
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« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2008, 04:15:25 PM »


I'm gonna go drink a beer.  Anyone else with me?  Cheeze, AndyC, ulthor, Indian, any of ya? 


I'll have one with you in spirit.   Cheers
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Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
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Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

--Real Genius
clockworkcanary
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« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2008, 04:15:49 PM »

Yeah man, sorry - it's too easy to go into a mode ...jump to conclusions...all that jazz, especially getting worked up talking to so many people about such touchy subjects.  I'm used to talkign to other more unreasonable people and I often hear the same old stuff and I get to the point where I subconsciously expect those answers.  I was getting more and more upset the more I typed and said more and more stuff I didn't really mean. Again, I apologize, not just sideways this time.
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clockworkcanary
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« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2008, 04:17:50 PM »


I'm gonna go drink a beer.  Anyone else with me?  Cheeze, AndyC, ulthor, Indian, any of ya? 


I'll have one with you in spirit.   Cheers

Hell yeah...hope you wanna have more than one! heh  That's something conservs and libs all love right?  Beer?
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ulthar
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« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2008, 04:23:46 PM »

Yeah man, sorry - it's too easy to go into a mode ...jump to conclusions...all that jazz, especially getting worked up talking to so many people about such touchy subjects.  I'm used to talkign to other more unreasonable people and I often hear the same old stuff and I get to the point where I subconsciously expect those answers.  I was getting more and more upset the more I typed and said more and more stuff I didn't really mean. Again, I apologize, not just sideways this time.

Fair enough.

I give you a karma pop to with your beer.
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Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

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CheezeFlixz
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« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2008, 05:36:47 PM »

HOLY SMOKES - I go inspect a foundation and truss system and come back and jeez I'll never catch up.

So in place of trying to respond to the entire thread at this time, I'll just say ...

Oh yeah, says who ... yeah right, whatever and I bet your momma does, but I did read something about a beer and that I'm game for.

Well try to read it all later, still have more work ... so I bid you ado for the time being.  Cheers
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