THE DARK KNIGHT

[trekgeezer]

Doesn't bother me either Joe.   I can't believe people are making such a big deal about this, but it's even getting press.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-kevin-conroy-christian-bale-batman-080404-ht,0,2707715.story



I know when Bale was making Begins, he said he felt totally silly when he put on the suit so he decided that he would make Batman a feral beast.

I just see the voice going along with that, he chose the bat as his emblem to instill fear the bad guys.

[darthchicken]

That voice was sooo annoying! It sounded like Batman had been smoking 6 packs a day for a few years. That was the worst part of the movie.

[akiratubo]

I had no problems with the Chinese guy, as the kidnapping & bringing him back to Gotham was intergal to the busting of the crime bosses that made them loose the Joker on the city -- Really, what would you have put in place of that?  I think it was a necessary part of the falling dominoes.

Easy.

Crime bosses are sitting around.

Russian Mafia Guy: Thees Batman ees a pain in our sides!  RARRRRR!
Eric Roberts "Italian" Mafia Guy: Yeah.  I wish we could do something about him.
Joker: (enters) I'll kill him for you!
Mafia Guys: Ok.

That voice was sooo annoying! It sounded like Batman had been smoking 6 packs a day for a few years. That was the worst part of the movie.

Yeah.  I'm not sure if I'll see the next one, if Bale is still doing that voice.

[HappyGilmore]

I don't mind the voice at all.  He's supposed to instill fear in his nemesis/villains/whoevers ass he's kicking this particular movie.

It wouldn't have the same effect if Batman just showed up and was talking all normal like, "So yeah, I just ate a burger and you make me mad, don't do that."  They'd laugh at him.

[Oldskool138]

You can be intelligible and scary at the same time.   

[HappyGilmore]

You can be intelligible and scary at the same time.   

You can be intelligible and scary at the same time.  

Like Captain Picard?  I always preferred Kirk to him.   

[Psycho Circus]

It's better if he sounds gruff and mean, as he's a vigilante fighting for justice in a big city.
If you really want to pick at it, then everyone'd be saying; "Hey, it's a guy in a rubber bat suit punching a guy in make-up, that's stupid."

It does sound a bit weird at first, but you get used to it. It'll be interesting to see if they change that come the next installment.

[Mofo Rising]

I loved this movie. I never pick a favorite movie, but I easily pick top five favorite movies, and this made this list quite easily.

Since it's been brought up a bit here, I'm going to comment on Batman's voice. He's an instigator of fear, but also has to protect his identity. He can't exactly go out sounding like Bruce Wayne; the faux theatrics are necessary. (Let's not get into semantics about how nobody realizes it's Bruce Wayne who is Batman. Clark Kent has those glasses after all.)

I admire the plot. Everything fits together in a nice snug little puzzle. Yes, the blackmailing accountant seems extraneous, but he serves as both a humorous release (sorely needed in this rather dark story), and as an impetus for further mayhem. He's part of the storyline that really puts Gotham as a city under siege. All those huge establishing shots really work for me. And as far as that too long sequence of the Joker blowing up the hospital? That was one of the funniest parts of the movie. Holy hell, Batman! He just blew up the hospital! Oh wait, that was just a false start. Now the real explosions begin.

Where this movie excels is the story of the all-too-human superheroes. Peter Johnson has it right that you should read The Killing Joke to really get what this movie is getting at. Both the Joker and the Batman were exposed to the absolute horrificness of life. Batman came out with a renewed agenda to protect the innocent and the "status quo" while the Joker surrendered himself to chaos. Two opposite reactions, and poor Harvey Dent was the casualty. Of course, we can't relax to easily on our laurels siding with the Batman, he's completely crazy too.

The final showdown with the boats was an illustration of this concept, and one of the tensest moments in the film. If you're going to call bulls**t, then answer this: would you blow up the other boat? (At the behest of a terrorist no less.) How prepared are you to kill 300 other people to save your own skin?

I think I should also mention that Batman here is a bit inchoate. He is not at the top of his game because he just started. The fact that he is willing to give himself up to the Joker is an indication of this. The diamond-hard pinnacle of human perfection and absolute justice that he is in the comics these days is still a ways away. He is at this point still a recognizable human, and not the terrifying specter of justice he has become.

I think the problem with a further sequel, regarding villains, is that the recent Batman releases stress reality. Sure, the Batman and the Joker are almost superhuman geniuses. The Joker's planning skill almost rival the execrable Jigsaw from the Saw movies for absolute prescience, but they are both still grounded in reality. Fitting the more outre villains into this world seems a bit silly. The Joker (best villain of all-time) and Two-Face fit in, but how do you include the next logical step Catwoman?

I must stress I loved this movie. It's very near and dear to me, and it will continue to be.

[akiratubo]

The final showdown with the boats was an illustration of this concept, and one of the tensest moments in the film. If you're going to call bulls**t, then answer this: would you blow up the other boat? (At the behest of a terrorist no less.) How prepared are you to kill 300 other people to save your own skin?

To be completely honest: Yes!  The people on the other boat sure as hell wouldn't be hesitating to blow up the boat I'm on, either.  Morality, compassion, civility, all those things go out the window when your life is about to end.  Either 300 people die, or 600 people die.  Frankly I'd rather like to be among the 300 who live.  Am I supposed to wait around for some insane man who dresses up like a bat to show up and beat up the guy holding the master detonator?  I don't think so!

The only thing that would make me not immediately push the button would be the fear that the Joker rigged the boats to both blow up, anyway.

In fact, that's how I would have done the scene.  All-out brawls erupt on both boats for the detonators, somebody gets one of them, presses it, and KABOOM! Both boats go up.  The Joker turns to Batman, laughs, and says that his point was proven.

[Zapranoth]

You can argue the point how you like; what the filmmaker chose to show about humanity's core, what the filmmaker chose to posit as the heart of us all,  is what we were shown.   The Joker lost that battle, too although it was complex in the losing.

[Neville]

Mmm... just saw the movie and I'm afraid I'm a little late to participate in the most heated debates around it.

Anyway, I liked the movie, actually liked it a lot, even more than I did "Batman begins", but I still wouldn't call it perfect. There's something in the quantity of big scenes and plot twists that feels like overkill to me, and the tone is sometimes too solemn for its own sake. At least they adressed some of the flaws of the last movie, like the awful shaky cam in action scenes. There's a big deal of action in this movie, and all of it is well planned and executed.

But what I really liked of the movie is how it addresses the whole "What if a masked hero started picking on the criminals of a city?" issue for real. I mean, Batman has to face inept copycats, the mob reacts to the presence of the hero by changing their tactics, and eventually (to restore the balance?), an opposite force appears and starts undoing his work.

Said force is, of course, the Joker. Looks like the writers did they homework, and they've dug out one of the most intriguing (and unsettling) ideas from Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns", that the Joker and the Batman are anomalies that depend on each other to exist and to compensate for each others' actions. There's some dialogue between Batman and the Joker in the movie that hints it, specially towards the end, and I also like the idea of the Joker coming out of the blue just when Batman is starting to obtain possitive results, without us knowing anything about his past. Even the conflicting stories he explains about it are most likely invented.

I also liked the flaws in Batman himself. No matter his good intentions, he's only a posh boy with a bag full of gadgets and the vague idea that he can restore order through blunt force, which is both idealistic and dangerous. We see him making mistakes, putting all his eggs on one basket and abusing his power, and eventually being forced to confront his idealism. It makes for an interesting subplot, although the way his doubts are solved, when BOTH crews of the ferrys decide to do the right thing (thus proving the victory of order over anarchy) not to use his detonators, too far fetched. We all know in real life any of them would have gone off within the first five minutes. That despite being under incredible pressure the citizens of Gotham are gung ho to put their fates in the hands of Batman and the Gotham Police Department doesn't add up with what we've seen throughout the movie.

As for Two Faces, don't make me talk about it. Hands off, he's the worst part of the movie. He makes an intriguing character while he stays as Dent, because he's pretty similar to Batman in ideology and intentions, although he prefers to make his fight for order a public one, and we also get to see his dark side a few times, but once he gets half cooked he's wasted as some sort of lame plot device. Did any of you buy that he gets manipulated so easily by the Joker? Because I didn't.

[Psycho Circus]

Which of course, is the Joker. Looks like the writers did they homework, and they've dug out one of the most intriguing (and unsettling) ideas from Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns", that the Joker and the Batman are anomalies that depend on each other to exist and to compensate for each others' actions. There's some dialogue between Batman and the Joker in the movie that hints it, and I also like the idea of the Joker coming out of the blue, without knowing us anything about his past. Even the (conflicting) stories he explains about it are most likely invented.

Nolan and the writers must stick with the Frank Miller style batman stuff

[Neville]

They seem to take Miller's work as one of their main inspirations, at least until now. The whole "Batman begins" movie has a lot in common with "Batman: Year One".

[HappyGilmore]

As for Two Faces, don't make me talk about it. Hands off, he's the worst part of the movie. He makes an intriguing character while he stays as Dent, because he's pretty similar to Batman in ideology and intentions, although he prefers to make his fight for order a public one, and we also get to see his dark side a few times, but once he gets half cooked he's wasted as some sort of lame plot device. Did any of you buy that he gets manipulated so easily by the Joker? Because I didn't.

I didn't really look at Two-Face being manipulated so much as just snapping when his grand scheme to catch Joker fell through.  His reputation was on the line, his girlfriend was dead, he was permanently scarred, and just snapped.  Granted, Joker got in his ear at the hospital, but I figured he was already at the breaking point by then.

[Oldskool138]

I didn't really look at Two-Face being manipulated so much as just snapping when his grand scheme to catch Joker fell through.  His reputation was on the line, his girlfriend was dead, he was permanently scarred, and just snapped.  Granted, Joker got in his ear at the hospital, but I figured he was already at the breaking point by then.

I'm with you on that one...earlier in the movie we saw that Dent had a dark side and was near the breaking point.  The Joker just gave him a little nudge after he was scarred emotionally and physically.