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Author Topic: Australian Customs to start checking ipods for illegal downloads at airport  (Read 5846 times)
dean
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« on: July 30, 2008, 04:14:08 AM »


The Australian government is considering a treaty with the US to police internationally illegal music downloads by checking your ipods and laptops for pirated music of commercial quantities.  What amount that means, I don't know.

I am absolutely incensed that my government is even considering this, let alone spending one braincell or tax dollars on this venture.

Surely there are better ways to regulate an obviously out of control industry than such draconian measures!

 Hatred

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,24090220-5003421,00.html

Considering this is a treaty getting written up at the moment, I imagine it's something the US is considering.  I don't see the Australians doing this on their own.

Oh and a side note, I tried to post this before, but the cat jumped on the keyboard when I hit post.  Had a quick scan and it looks like it disappeared, but if it is around somewhere, can a mod promptly delete the less interesting version? Lookingup   Thumbup
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CheezeFlixz
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 08:07:07 AM »

How will they know if your music is illegal?

My argument has always been that if you have at some point in the past bought a legal version of the song then you are allowed to possess that song in any format, the music company owns the rights to the song, not the format. So if I bought Alice Cooper's Killer on LP in 1972 then I can have it on mp3 today because I've already pay for the rights to the song for personal use.
Why isn't it illegal to record a song off the radio, or dub a tape, or record a movie off TV ... where is the stink over that?

This crap of having to buy a new format every time ones comes out is a racket. Buy it on 45 then LP then 8-track then Cassette then CD now mp3 ... I don't think so. I'll buy one license for the song not the format.

Personally I think government should have better things to do with their time. What if you have sensitive classified information on your computer, like business files, medical files, military files, trade secrets ... should any Tom, Dick or Harry working for minimum wage for TSA be allowed to peruse your files looking for a illegal copy of song?

I don't think so.
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asimpson2006
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 09:49:46 AM »

How will they know if your music is illegal?

My argument has always been that if you have at some point in the past bought a legal version of the song then you are allowed to possess that song in any format, the music company owns the rights to the song, not the format. So if I bought Alice Cooper's Killer on LP in 1972 then I can have it on mp3 today because I've already pay for the rights to the song for personal use.
Why isn't it illegal to record a song off the radio, or dub a tape, or record a movie off TV ... where is the stink over that?

This crap of having to buy a new format every time ones comes out is a racket. Buy it on 45 then LP then 8-track then Cassette then CD now mp3 ... I don't think so. I'll buy one license for the song not the format.

Personally I think government should have better things to do with their time. What if you have sensitive classified information on your computer, like business files, medical files, military files, trade secrets ... should any Tom, Dick or Harry working for minimum wage for TSA be allowed to peruse your files looking for a illegal copy of song?

I don't think so.

I'm not sure how they would know a song is illegal.  You can legally make copies of something as long as you don't sell the copy (Like buying a PC game and copying the CD/DVD for the sole purpose of having a back up in case the disc fails, is stolen, damage, etc).  Sorta like the example of sports events.  I can record a baseball game, or a hockey game and watch it later since I may not be around to see it.  However though I can't make a copy of the game then turn around a sell it to someone or show it in public.
 

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Patient7
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 11:22:47 AM »

Gay, just gay.
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CheezeFlixz
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 12:05:47 PM »

I'm not sure how they would know a song is illegal.  You can legally make copies of something as long as you don't sell the copy (Like buying a PC game and copying the CD/DVD for the sole purpose of having a back up in case the disc fails, is stolen, damage, etc).  Sorta like the example of sports events.  I can record a baseball game, or a hockey game and watch it later since I may not be around to see it.  However though I can't make a copy of the game then turn around a sell it to someone or show it in public.

In the states you can't even make a "legal" backup copy anymore I don't think do the the digital copyright protection act. And just you try to get a damaged disc replaced by the studio. These has caused much uproar with many people and the music and movie industry in their desire to "protect" their work is doing nothing but ticking people off and as a result their sales have fallen through he floor. Basically they've created a self fulfilling prophecy of declining sales with their collective attitudes.   
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ghouck
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 06:39:19 PM »

It is my understanding that somehow the whole "Keep a backup of my own stuff" idea has been circumvented as far as games and DVDs are concerned, because it is illegal to break any copy-protection scheme. I do not know if this is true or not, but I've heard it a bunch, and I admit I'm not 100% up to par on these issues. It was my understanding that you can not legally copy a copyrighted DVD, since to do so you have to circumvent the copy-protection measures. Totally sucks to me. What's worse, is that they're not one bit interested in moving to a less fragile media format, because if you can't back the info up, your only recourse is to buy the item again when it gets damaged.
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Sister Grace
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 07:58:11 PM »

It is my understanding that somehow the whole "Keep a backup of my own stuff" idea has been circumvented as far as games and DVDs are concerned, because it is illegal to break any copy-protection scheme. I do not know if this is true or not, but I've heard it a bunch, and I admit I'm not 100% up to par on these issues. It was my understanding that you can not legally copy a copyrighted DVD, since to do so you have to circumvent the copy-protection measures. Totally sucks to me. What's worse, is that they're not one bit interested in moving to a less fragile media format, because if you can't back the info up, your only recourse is to buy the item again when it gets damaged.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Capitalism...

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ghouck
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 08:02:15 PM »

Quote
Welcome to the wonderful world of Capitalism...

True, but as a result, a while back THEY got welcomed to the world of Peer to Peer networks.
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dean
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 03:35:45 AM »


There has been a lot of talk in the news for a while now about how to deal with music downloads.  The issue is more that it is so much easier to download music now than it ever was by taping off a cd etc, and even the average joe has taken it up, that of course sales are going to slow.

The public has voted with it's feet, and what they have voted for is for cheaper alternatives.  And since there is zero responsibility and accountability it is nigh on impossible to police, since let's remember, it is ILLEGAL to download for free.  I of course download my fair share, but remember programs such as Itunes and it's kin have had a rise in sales, because people want the ease of downloading or only getting singles etc.

Personally I think the whole industry needs a shake up.  People will be willing to pay a little for the privelage of it not being illegal, but I think it's gotten to the point where if it's so easy to get it for free, why don't they?  Companies need to offer something MORE.  But hey, instead of coming up with valuable alternatives to at least stem the flow a little, they choose to punish the consumers and continue the cycle of hate.

I imagine in this case they are looking for improperly labelled songs but I severely doubt anything will come of this particular case.
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Jack
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2008, 07:15:42 AM »

I don't understand how they can possibly tell what's "illegal".  Even if they have copy protection on the CD, how do they know that you didn't legally download the songs from Amazon or iTunes?  And how can a person have a "commercial quantity" of music?  You just need one copy of it, then you can make as many as you want.  You don't need to have 5,000 copies of a song on your iPod.  Or is anyone who bought a large iPod because they wanted to have a large quantity of music on it automatically assumed to be a bootlegger?  Are the customs agents supposed to go through 3,000 songs, asking for receipts for each and every one of them, from the tourist as they sit in the airport, to discover which are legal and which are not?

This is just getting more ridiculous by the day.  Customs agents, who are supposed to be checking for drugs and keeping terrorists out of the country, screwing around with people's iPods for something that's doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  These record companies have just got to got bankrupt and out of business.  The quality of music they put out is down the toilet, and they're spending all their resources  suing people to get them to buy more of it.  How in the hell can they possibly stay solvent?
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dean
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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 10:15:44 AM »

I think the idea was to check laptops for commercial amounts of illegally downloaded music.

Kind of like having weed vs having a lot of weed 'intended for sale' etc.


Still it's freakin' ridiculous either way.  As it stands we have one of the longest customs procedures as it is [it takes a while to enter the country because of a lot of quarantine issues...]

Still, Australia has always been reasonably free of all this copyright nonsense that I know those in the states have copped, and I can't help but think this is all a bit of 'country to country' PR.

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Rev. Powell
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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2008, 10:34:40 AM »

As others have pointed out, this idea is unworkable because it's impossible to distinguish legally owned materially from illegally pirated material.  The administrative burden of checking people's property would be ridiculous, and pirates could easily circumvent it by changing file names on their laptops.

I suspect this is one of those cases where someone's brainstorming memo got leaked, and although no one took it seriously, the press found it and presented it as if it were being actually proposed.  I see it as similar to the "plan" to have the flying public wear those bracelets that would shock passengers if they became violent on flights.  I have a nearly infinite faith in the stupidity of government bureaucrats, but some ideas are SO stupid you have to conclude that even the most out-of-touch, pencil-pushing government official couldn't take it seriously.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 10:36:13 AM by Rev. Powell » Logged

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AndyC
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2008, 10:54:02 AM »

For all the effort that has been put into beating the customer into submission, how much has the industry actually put into trying to take full advantage of technology and fulfilling the public's expectations?

What we get are downloaded songs that we can't change from one format to another, that stop working when our subscription runs out, and that cost far too much for what we get.

Legal song downloads seem like a good deal compared to CDs, but basically, you're only buying the intellectual property, without the material goods and the overhead that goes with them. Once the song is recorded and mixed, they can sell all they want without any added cost besides royalties. There's no disc, no jewel case, no liner, no raw materials, no factories, no printing, pressing, packaging, shipping or retail space. Just a bit of storage and bandwidth. The price should reflect that, and the format should allow all the same permanence and flexibilty we've enjoyed with everything from vinyl to cassettes to CDs. Until that happens, it is the industry that's stealing.
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2008, 11:26:06 AM »

For all the effort that has been put into beating the customer into submission, how much has the industry actually put into trying to take full advantage of technology and fulfilling the public's expectations?

What we get are downloaded songs that we can't change from one format to another, that stop working when our subscription runs out, and that cost far too much for what we get.

Legal song downloads seem like a good deal compared to CDs, but basically, you're only buying the intellectual property, without the material goods and the overhead that goes with them. Once the song is recorded and mixed, they can sell all they want without any added cost besides royalties. There's no disc, no jewel case, no liner, no raw materials, no factories, no printing, pressing, packaging, shipping or retail space. Just a bit of storage and bandwidth. The price should reflect that, and the format should allow all the same permanence and flexibilty we've enjoyed with everything from vinyl to cassettes to CDs. Until that happens, it is the industry that's stealing.

C'mon, AndyC.  Offering a product in a format that you don't like at a price you think is too high isn't "stealing".  Taking someone else's labor that is offered for sale without paying anything for it is stealing. 

I don't think this is at all what you are saying, but there is a certain segment of the population that tries to justify digitally shoplifting their music by complaining about the recording industry's practices.  Downloading music without paying is stealing, plain and simple, and the fact that its easy to do and the product didn't cost much to produce doesn't change that.     
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AndyC
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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2008, 06:28:41 PM »

Oh, I don't begrudge them a fair price for their product, but the prices don't reflect what it actually costs when no physical medium is required. I wouldn't even object if the artists got more, but it is the labels who are reaping the benefits. I'm not defending illegal copying by any means, but I am criticizing the industry for their hypocrisy and their apparent inability to adapt, not to mention that they seem to put more effort into holding everyone else back than they do into catching themselves up.
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