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indianasmith
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« on: September 21, 2008, 05:00:36 PM »

If Islam is a religion of peace, how come, 9 times out of 10, when something, somewhere is blown up, it's a Muslim doing it?
How come, when the Pope quoted an ancient text citing Islam's prediliction for violence, did Muslims protest by shooting a 64 year old nun in the back and raping Christian schoolgirls in Africa?
If it is a religion of peace, why does a simple cartoon in a Dutch newspaper cause riots that kill dozens worldwide?
Last of all . . . if, as Rosy O'Donnell says,  radical Christians are as big a threat to peace as radical Muslims, could someone please tell me the last time a radical Baptist, Methodist, or Lutheran blew up a schoolbus or a busy marketplace in the name of their faith?

Just . . . . wondering.
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2008, 05:13:25 PM »

Religion is the most evil thing in the world, it's used as an excuse for people's actions, explanations for people's lack of knowledge and stupidity, to control people and it is the source of most of the world's problems. I was christened Catholic, but I don't recognise that faith at all. My parents never even went to church! I had to get fed aload of biased, bulls**t, claptrap in high school which I voiced my opinions on quite clearly and suffered for it. Islam is a joke, all religion is. I don't mind someone having faith in something and people can believe what they want, but when it's rammed down your throat and people die for it - that's too much. From middle-east extremists to small-town English pastors, they're all brain-washed hypocrites!
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Jack
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 05:49:01 PM »

It's called political correctness.  You take the most obvious facts in the world and try to make people feel guilty for believing them.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2008, 05:56:14 PM »

Religion is the most evil thing in the world, it's used as an excuse for people's actions, explanations for people's lack of knowledge and stupidity, to control people and it is the source of most of the world's problems. I was christened Catholic, but I don't recognise that faith at all. My parents never even went to church! I had to get fed aload of biased, bulls**t, claptrap in high school which I voiced my opinions on quite clearly and suffered for it. Islam is a joke, all religion is. I don't mind someone having faith in something and people can believe what they want, but when it's rammed down your throat and people die for it - that's too much. From middle-east extremists to small-town English pastors, they're all brain-washed hypocrites!

Religion can be a cause for great evil, or great good.  But I do believe it is wrong to equate all religions.  I am a Christian and have never tried to hide it on this board.  That being said, I recognize that great evil has been done in the name of Christ throughout history.  However, there is a key difference here that I hope people will recognize.  There is NOTHING in the actual teachings of Christ that encourages His followers to violence against others.  NOTHING, EVER.
  The Church embraced violence in the Middle Ages because that was an age of rampant violence and ignorancre, and the church followed the crowd in the wrong direction because it was led by men who either never read or chose to ignore what Christ taught (Honestly, the Medieval mindset was so hopelessly messed up I think they would have burned each other over interpreting the directions to a game of Yahtzee - "I believe that four dice in a row form a small straigh, not a large one, your grace."  "HERETIC!!!! Burn him!!!!").
  On the other hand, Muhammad repeatedly ordered his followers to wage war on all unbelievers.  Conversion at the point of the sword was the way Islam spread throughout its first three centuries of existence.  A Christian who kills in the name of his faith violates everything that Christ ever taught; a Muslim who kills in the name of his faith is simply obeying the voice of Muhammad as contained in the Quran.

The two religions are NOT the same.
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 06:24:44 PM »


Last of all . . . if, as Rosy O'Donnell says,  radical Christians are as big a threat to peace as radical Muslims

I always though of that as a technicality since the KKK claims to be a Christian organization and I believe, has some sort of tax-exempt status under the claims of being a religious organization. If that were true, they could represent a radical Christian group. I dunno.

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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 06:34:54 PM »

From what I know, Islam is actually divided into Shiites and Sunnies (not sure if I spelled either right).  Evidently, Shiites are the one's who believe that killing in the name of Allah is fine and Sunnies are more peaceful.  But it's been a couple years scine World History and I kinda didn't pay attention (still got an A, I think, maybe a B).

On the subject of religion in general, I am a Catholic, and I find that it's not religion that's the problem, it's people who believe theirs is superior and that everyone else is just stupid and ignorant.  Religion has done great things for many people and it's some overly religious wackos that cause the problems.  However, I feel that it's all up to how things are interpreted.  The only rules that anyone can be absolutley sure they need to follow are the ones that their particular book of faith lays out clearly.  It's all based on what you can interpret and if you think killing is okay then you might want to read more carefully just to be sure.  But that's just my opinion.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2008, 07:16:01 PM »

Actually, both Sunni and Shi'a are equally committed to the concept of Jihad.  Al Qaeda is largely a Sunni organization, whereas Hezbollah is primarily Shi'ite.

Ghouck - it is true that the Klan has traditionally wrapped itself in the robes of Christianity, and in the American flag as well.  However, I am from the "Deep South" - I mean, a black man was burned alive on the streets of the town I live in just 100 years ago - and virtually every white person I know hates and resents what the Klan stands for.  Just as, whenever some radical Christian group bombs an abortion clinic or whatever, every mainstream Christian leader in the world condemns them (OK, maybe not the Wacked Out Westwood Baptist Warriors, but that sad, misled bunch of idiots only has about 60 members - and I think all of them are related by blood or marriage to the hatemongering pastor).  There are radical Christians who advocate violence, but they are a tiny, tiny minority in the Christian community.

Over half of all Middle Eastern Muslims believe it is acceptable to kill a family member who converts away from Islam, or a daughter who displays "unchaste" behavior.  In Dallas there was a cabbie from Egypt who shot and killed his two teenage daughters this spring because they were dating non-Muslim boys, and wearing makeup. Ages 15 and 17.  He escaped to the Middle East, probably with the aid of local Muslims, and most likely will never be prosecuted for his crime.  Any religion that would have a father gun down his little girls is SICK, SICK, SICK!!!!!!
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2008, 07:36:42 PM »

I agree, I'm just pointing out that particular point of view. Rosie has few enough fans and friends that she's just trying to kiss every ass that comes her way.

There was an article on the 'net, maybe even on MSN, that was titled "Ten truths people don't want to admit". One was that some huge percent, 80% or 90% I believe, of terrorists are of middle east decent and Muslim.

Worst of all, of the few Muslims that I have talked to about their religion, all have gotten offended by my reaction to their religion. I asked a couple different Muslims if it were true that their religion believes in the extermination of everyone that is not a Muslim, and they all answered Yes, all after trying to weasel their way around answering it. When I asked "How is that supposed to make ME feel?", They got offended that I question their religion, And tried to tactfully as they could, make the point that I was a lesser person than them, not in the AFTERLIFE, , but RIGHT NOW. Basically, if they had a non-Muslim on their knees, with a gun to his head, they would expect them to be understanding and not be offended by their own imminent execution.
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2008, 09:31:28 PM »

I was raised as a Catholic and while I don't agree with a lot of the teachings of the church, I still consider myself one. The biggest problem with religions is not the religion itself, it's the people who use their religion as an excuse to commit murder. This sort of thing has been going on throughout history, but I think the Muslim terrorists have raised it to an art, since it appears these intolerant, uneducated bigots only understand violence and death I can forsee a time in the not to distant future when the rest of the world is going to destroy them. When it happens they will only have themselves to blame, of course they'll say they're being singled out by the followers of Satan or some such drivel. The great shame in this is that many innocent people on both sides will suffer, but that too goes hand in hand with the kind of religious idiocy that these extremists preach. 
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2008, 09:57:17 PM »

I agree that religion in general gets a bad rap. Just to return to the earlier comment that religion is evil because people use it as an excuse for their evil deeds. That's exactly it - those are their deeds and they are using religion as an excuse. If it weren't religion, it would be something else. And it often is something else - business, politics, the "greater good" in its many forms. There are no shortage of important things to justify any rotten thing you want to do. The problem is with people, some of whom will find a way to corrupt almost anything. In some ways, religion is less corruptible by having some hard moral guidelines put down in writing.

A lot of good is done in the name of religion, including Islam, and a lot of good has been done amongst all of the historical atrocities that usually come up.

But at the same time, not all religions or cultures are equal in the degree to which they can be corrupted and exploited. And Islamic terrorism does come from a mixture of corrupted religion, culture and politics together.
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2008, 10:04:21 PM »

How come, when the Pope quoted an ancient text citing Islam's prediliction for violence, did Muslims protest by shooting a 64 year old nun in the back and raping Christian schoolgirls in Africa?

I'm sorry, but did I read that correctly to suggest that an isolated act is the fault of every single living Muslim?

Isn't that as ridiculous as saying that the Christian group that wanted to protest at Heath Ledger's(sp) funeral represents the entirety of Christians?


Last of all . . . if, as Rosy O'Donnell says,  radical Christians are as big a threat to peace as radical Muslims, could someone please tell me the last time a radical Baptist, Methodist, or Lutheran blew up a schoolbus or a busy marketplace in the name of their faith?

Uh...do abortion clinic bombings come to mind?

How about an over-zealous president who declares war on another country, without provocation, and considers it right in god's eyes?

We could do comparisons from both sides, but that would be pointless.

What concerns me is that your post seems like something...well...out of hatred.

I don't know enough about Islam to argue one way or another as to the peacefulness of the religion. I do know that there are people, and people first, who are Muslims. There are also leaders with agendas, and frankly lone psychopaths as well, who will use their influence or position to drive people to do things.

In this country, we have had leaders, theocrats, go on a warpath against gay people. Citizens of this country have lined up in the name of Christianity to oppose gay people. Is this not hatred taken from a religion's opposition to a lifestyle?

People can be moved by the actions of a few, either intentionally or incidentally, when it's about something important to them, or made to seem like it should be important to them.

We have all seen videos on the news of people at their worst.

Some young black men go running past a minit mart and just randomly shoot a pedestrian dead. So, is this suppose to tell us how all young black men act?

We see an Olympic Park bombing as it happens, and find out later (after the false witch hunt of a security guard) that it was a Christian doing it in the name of god. So, is this how all Christians act?

The men who blew up the federal building in Oklahoma city were Christians. How is that spun in other countries? Christians go around blowing up buildings and killing men, women, and children?

I used to look for the differences in people that made them act the way they did. I got over looking for the differences and instead focusing on the similarities. Yes, there are differences due to religion and culture, which are not always that far removed, but we are all still people and should not be categorically defined by someone else's actions.

Perhaps there is more of a tendency toward certain acts of violence due to religion being so entwined with culture and politics. We have certainly seen acts from Kamikaze pilots of WW2 and suicide bombers of today with which in our society we, in general, cannot fathom the idea of such a mindset.

There are things that people do in other countries that seem odd or extreme to us, and things we do that seem just as odd or extreme to others. When it comes to taking lives, or otherwise violating people, to me that is just unacceptable and I really don't give a damn how that rubs against someone's culture.

I don't believe that being a Muslim makes someone bad. That's just an extension or the old argument going on for centuries that 'my religion is right'. I do believe that the integration of religion and politics, though it will happen to some degree regardless, is simply dangerous. Perhaps we as a country should take a lesson from that.


Rant over (random as it was)TongueOut


Now for something on the lighter side:

A photography supplies store used to advertise in Shutterbug magazine regularly.

They would advertise muslins (a poly/cotton blend cloth used, raw or dyed, as a backdrop or floor cloth) for sale.

Someone should have read the copy more closely as, for as long as I can recall, their ad ran a special as follows (paraphrased):

"Muslims, all sizes and colors, 30% off"

 TeddyR
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ghouck
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2008, 10:11:45 PM »

Quote
I'm sorry, but did I read that correctly to suggest that an isolated act is the fault of every single living Muslim?

Am I correct in that you are implying that is the ONLY act of terrorism being referred to? In your haste to make an argument, you missed the point. I'll give you a hint: It's the part where an accusation of history of violence was protested by, , gasp, , an ACT OF VIOLENCE.

Quote
How about an over-zealous president who declares war on another country, without provocation, and considers it right in god's eyes?

Done so in the name of religion? Do all Christians support this?

Quote
What concerns me is that your post seems like something...well...out of hatred.

Then you're reading into it, it's a question. I see no hatred in it, must be you.

Quote
I don't believe that being a Muslim makes someone bad. That's just an extension or the old argument going on for centuries that 'my religion is right'. I do believe that the integration of religion and politics, though it will happen to some degree regardless, is simply dangerous. Perhaps we as a country should take a lesson from that.

Point well missed.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 10:15:32 PM by ghouck » Logged

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Menard
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2008, 10:17:26 PM »


Quote
I don't believe that being a Muslim makes someone bad. That's just an extension or the old argument going on for centuries that 'my religion is right'. I do believe that the integration of religion and politics, though it will happen to some degree regardless, is simply dangerous. Perhaps we as a country should take a lesson from that.

Point well missed.

Obviously


Sorry to have interrupted.

Please continue with your all's Muslim bashing thread.
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ghouck
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2008, 10:22:15 PM »

Ok, , so the doctrine of a religion states that I personally do not have the right to live, and 'I' am the one that is bashing. Now I've heard everything.

And let me clue you in on the other point you're ignoring: Nobody said being a Muslim is bad, but if a Muslim, ANY Muslim kills another person because of their belief or lack of belief in the Muslim faith, , that makes them a bad person, PERIOD. I'm not MY fault that was written into THEIR doctrine. I guess my opposition to having my life threatened because of someone's religion is 'bashing'.

Quote
Uh...do abortion clinic bombings come to mind?

Not really since they aren't school buses and the people killed in them are, , well, the people being TARGETED. I would hope you could see the difference between bombing a clinic so no more abortions could be performed there, and blowing up a school bus just to instill fear and shock. Neither is right IMO, , but there's still a huge difference.

While we're at it, why don't YOU tell us when the last abortion clinic bombing was? Everything I've see says a life hasn't been lost in over a decade. How long has it been since people have been killed in bombings performed in the name of Allah?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 10:48:28 PM by ghouck » Logged

Raw bacon is GREAT! It's like regular bacon, only faster, and it doesn't burn the roof of your mouth!

Happiness is green text in the "Stuff To Watch For" section.

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indianasmith
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2008, 11:13:38 PM »

Menard - you know I love you, man!!

My whole point is that violence is and always has been an intrinsic part of Muslim theology.  From the beginning, Muhammad spread his faith by the sword.

There has been lots of violence committed in the name of Christianity - but that violence is EXTRINSIC - totally alien to what Christ actually taught, as recorded in the gospels and epistles that make up the New Testament.

So you have two religions, one that preaches "Turn the other cheek" but doesn't always practice it, and one that preaches "Make war on the unbeliever" and practices that creed daily. (I know, not all Muslims do, but a depressingly large number of them either practice or condone violence.)

Do you really believe the two are morally equivalent?

That is the question.
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