Voter Fraud In O-high-o?

[ER]

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081019/NEWS0106/810190380/1113/election0

Excerpts from the front page article dated today, Sunday October 19, 2008. Italics and underlining mine.

"The Enquirer found at least 6,567 voters in Ohio who are registered at least twice from the same address. Of those, 157 voters - mostly in Cuyahoga County - are registered three or more times. Two voters from Cleveland appear on the voter rolls six times each - with six different voter identification numbers."

"Voter registration forms don't always identify how someone was registered, but a group frequently identified as a source of bad registrations is the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN. According to the Associated Press, the FBI is investigating the group in several states for alleged voter registration fraud."

"Examples of suspect documents include multiple registration forms submitted in the same handwriting for different people. Or multiple forms for the same voter, with different Social Security numbers or dates of birth. Some names appear to be taken from the phone book - even with abbreviations like 'Wm" for William or "Robt' for Robert. Goldsmith said many of those have been referred to the Secretary of State and the Hamilton County Prosecutor's Office for investigation."

"In Hamilton County, 17 people are registered to vote from riverfront addresses south of Mehring Way - places with street numbers that would put their homes somewhere in the Ohio River. Another 46 voters are registered at addresses that would put their homes in the middle of the Paul Brown Stadium parking lot, or at the riverfront project known as The Banks - which hasn't been built."

"Thousands of voters appear on registration lists twice - some as many as six times. At least 589 registered voters - mostly in Franklin and Cuyahoga counties - were born in 1991 or later, which puts them under the legal voting age."

"Voters are registered at post office boxes, office buildings with no residences, police stations and even park benches."

Gee, it sucks to be right and to get called names for it.

[Menard]

Gee, it sucks to be right and to get called names for it.

Right about what, girlfriend?

[Andrew]

Gee, it sucks to be right and to get called names for it.

Please point out where you were called names in the previous voter fraud thread.

We're about one second from a ban on political threads, btw.  I'm getting sick of them.

[Menard]

We're about one second from a ban on political threads, btw.  I'm getting sick of them.

As much as I hate political threads, and especially because like this specific one are only meant to incite, it is, unfortunately, what several members want (while there are just as many, if not more, who are sick of them), or they would not be garnering as many responses.

The problem is not the threads, but that there are several who simply get off on inciting others. Then again, what constitutes a political thread?

You have always maintained an open forum where any discussion among its members is welcome. We've had political discussions in the past, but we didn't have a contingent of members who liked to push buttons (at least not those buttons ).

Others have mentioned it on here before, and I think it is a good idea; have a separate forum for political and other hot topics, with a warning. If someone goes into that forum of their own accord, they cannot hold anybody but themselves responsible for anything they get into.

I have such a forum on one of my boards; it is called 'The Outhouse', because it's where all the s**t belongs (not like that board gets used anyway, but that's the idea). Additionally, no posts in that forum will show on the most recent posts.

People have already changed the atmosphere of this forum, Andrew; don't let them one up you by changing the way you have always done things, and done them well.

[ghouck]

No offense Menard, but AFAIC, there are plenty of places to discuss politics. 'Trying' to look at it from Andrew's point of view, this isn't what he put these boards up for, this isn't what he worked for putting this site together. Notice the other boards are almost dead, coinciding with this rash of political threads (which I am just as guilty of contributing to as anyone else).

The worst part is that these threads seem to be bringing out the worst in people, and some long-time, respected posters are becoming more and more rude and insulting (and I'm not excluding myself from THAT group either, other than the 'long time poster' part).

BTW, I was kinda trying to push the political crap towards the bottom of the first page, I hope others will help do the same.

[Rev. Powell]

BTW, I was kinda trying to push the political crap towards the bottom of the first page, I hope others will help do the same.

Hear, hear! 

Oops. 

Seriously, I repeat my vote for a subforum. 

[Menard]

No offense Menard, but AFAIC, there are plenty of places to discuss politics. 'Trying' to look at it from Andrew's point of view, this isn't what he put these boards up for, this isn't what he worked for putting this site together. Notice the other boards are almost dead, coinciding with this rash of political threads (which I am just as guilty of contributing to as anyone else).

The worst part is that these threads seem to be bringing out the worst in people, and some long-time, respected posters are becoming more and more rude and insulting (and I'm not excluding myself from THAT group either, other than the 'long time poster' part).

BTW, I was kinda trying to push the political crap towards the bottom of the first page, I hope others will help do the same.

Certainly you have valid points, and I don't know for certain that my suggestion (really agreeing with what others have suggested) would necessarily work.

This forum, as we both well know, has always been an open forum where any discussion was allowed. Some have certainly pushed that to its limit. There has, not to my knowledge anyway, never been a 'you can't talk about this' list (perhaps there has been and I have just ignored it).

The thing is, people have intentionally tried to change the face of the forum and threads such as this one started by ER are for no other reason than to incite people, and for nobody else's entertainment value than ER's.

A separate sub-forum would not necessarily be a cure-all. It would provide a place should someone want to start such a thread to incite (though WireDick can certainly do the same thing without bringing up politics), but I think such threads would die off eventually as the reason for putting such threads in active forums is to draw others into the fray; and they have certainly done that, and driven away several regulars.

Something does need to be done.

I had someone comment on one of my forums about how well written two of us were who were on that forum, and how they wished they could get such members for their forum. This forum has many more highly valuable contributing members than most any forum, which others would love to have on their's; I dare someone to find more. But the members who have already exited, or sparingly visit any more, would be welcome at any forum for what they contribute. The way the forum is going, it stands to lose that much more.

If you either restrict what anybody can talk about, or just let it go, either way the people doing this have won, IMO. Personally I don't believe in restrictions imposed on everybody due to the actions of a few. Those few will simply move on to another place if they can't get what they want here, while this forum will have been changed and wearing its scars.

Of course, that's just one opinion, and just an opinion. I could be wrong; I haven't been, yet, but I could be.

 

[Andrew]

Unfortunately, politics brings out some of the worst things in people.  We exhibit the same behavior as monkeys, ripping up grass and throwing poo at each other until the king monkey that we want to see in charge is acknowledged.  With the election looming in the near future, and the negative stories coming on strong, I only see the problem getting worse.

The "intent" of the site, and thus the forum, is to celebrate weird, cult, low budget, and sometimes plain old bad movies.  The political discussions have frequently become toxic, and they do suck energy away from trading thoughts and information about movies.  I do not like saying "no political discussions" because it is vague.  Even saying "no partisan political discussions" gets vague. 

Figuring out what constitutes a political post or not would be squarely my problem.

I understand the idea for a politics sub-forum, and it's a good suggestion.  It might be better than my thought about a blanket "no politics" rule.  I think that having a sub-forum would help, but the site's focus is the movies.  There are plenty of political sites for political discussions, and members could still discuss politics via pm if that is what they really want.

The good thing is that a month-long moratorium on political threads would probably get us past the issue.

[Menard]

The good thing is that a month-long moratorium on political threads would probably get us past the issue.

(i.e. past the election)

Now you really need to throw away that word-a-day calendar and use words like 'suspension'.

I think the possible sub-forum should be for any thread in which the subject could be volatile (e.g. politics, religion, women bashing, and a certain someone's race and ethnic bashing threads). It would also be a good place to throw a thread if it shows potential for getting out of hand.

At times it would be a tough call to decide on what constitutes such a thread and I certainly don't envy you having the task to do that.

[AndyC]

I have tended to enjoy the political threads at times myself, but I'm beginning to agree with the folks who say they have no place here. They are very divisive, and maybe not a good fit for a board based on people enjoying a common interest.

Generally, I like to know a little more about what makes everyone tick. If I didn't, I couldn't honestly say I knew anyone here. Political threads tell us a lot about each other. The difficulty is that political discussions do get nasty. They make people angry, myself included, and when we get angry, we get nasty and p**sy and rude. There are folks on here who can treat these threads as an exchange of opinions, agreeing to disagree, but there are plenty more who can't. And a few who like to stir the pot.

What is most troubling to me is that the political arguments have colored the way I look at some members of the board, even when the topic is an entertaining, non-political one, and everybody is getting along. The bad feelings don't stay in the off-topic discussion. That, I think, is where I draw the line. When the political debates have a negative effect on the movie topics, it's time to get rid of them.

[Menard]

 

I just realized that we collectively hijacked this thread (yeah, I'm a little slow at times....ahem, that's enough agreement).

Now that's an idea for dealing with any threads we don't like (political, divisive, hate mongering); we'll just have a lynch mob mentality and hijack them before they can go anywhere.


New topic: Favorite Cartoon Animals

Aside from the original Looney Tunes, I always got a kick out of Droopy the Dog and his overly relaxed way of doing things. He always seemed like the type that, while a building was crumbling around him, could prop his feet up and have a beer.

How 'bout you?

 

[indianasmith]

First of all, in ER's defense, I have known her 10 years and she is about the furthest thing from a right-wing shill you can imagine.  I tried like heck to get her to vote against Kerry last time around without success.  She is genuinely scared and alarmed about what is happening in Ohio and the rest of the country's indifference to it.

Secondly, I know there are political websites out there.  But frankly, my friends are on this site and on a couple of arrowhead sites I hang out on.  I don't want to go anywhere else, but I do like, from time to time, to bring up and discuss political/ religious/cultural matters.  I hope that I keep that balanced with the movie discussions and other silliness I post here, because I don't want to be thought of as a troll.

And my friend ER is not a troll either.  She is one of the most intelligent and lively correspondents I've ever had a dialog with.  I hate to see her take a beating here.

All that aside, Andrew, you're a great mod and I will honor your wishes, whatever you decide.  I'm a mod on one forum I belong to, and I know that moderating flame wars is not fun.  But I think, personally, that freedom of speech is a great thing.  Like all freedoms, it's messy and easy to abuse.  But I don't want  to see it go away on this board.  That's just my opinion.

[Mr. DS]

With all due respect, I can't see why anyone would start a political post on this board. If you look at the history of these political rants, you have the same 5 or so members hacking it out in a war of words.  With that said, its apparent more than 90% of the members here simply don't care to talk about politics on this board.  If someone should have major insight that will effect the voting masses, why waste your time here with it?  Go to other boards where thousands of men and women await to hear your words.  Then you can flame one another all you want.  

Most of us come here to kick back, relax and discuss entertainment.  We all have stress in our lives so why get wrapped up with rants from the left and the right?  I have remarked in the past how much respect for one another board members have here, even when they disagree.  Sadly a lot of respect is going down the drain lately thanks to the rise of political discussions.  

As for those leaving the board due to the political posting, thats a bit brash.   No one has to go anywhere because a few members want to blab about politics.  There are plenty of other threads to join in on. Thats why I personally wouldn't mind a sub board for political discussion because its more easily ignored by the vast majority of members here.  

[Menard]

Foghorn Leghorn; now that's one cocky rooster.

I always got a kick out of the ways he and that dog would brutalize each other.

Anybody recall when he was trying to find a coop to roost in for the Winter and he took on the task of watching her kid for her that day.

Ah say...ah say...I got my bandages to keep me warm this Winter.

[Mr. DS]

Foghorn Leghorn; now that's one cocky rooster.

I always got a kick out of the ways he and that dog would brutalize each other.

Anybody recall when he was trying to find a coop to roost in for the Winter and he took on the task of watching her kid for her that day.

Ah say...ah say...I got my bandages to keep me warm this Winter.

I like the Chicken Hawk guy that would show up from time to time.  Of course Foghorn would try to convince him he wasn't the chicken but rather the dog was. 

I seemed to like Wile E Coyote a lot better when he went to work with that sheep dog.  They'd greet each other before and after work and during lunch.  But when they were on company time, Mr. Coyote got the snot beat out of him.