Iran is NOT months away from a nuclear weapon

[ghouck]

No, it's our way of life. All the things their younger people want, that we have and they don't, is what they hate about us

so you dont need to read what the 9/11 commision wrote or  what the people who study bin laden wrote. 

you have no actual information but you can draw the correct conclusion from "your own ass" as they say.

I've read it, not impressed. Yes I DO know Muslims, , and they freely admit their religion at it's roots demands the eradication of non-Muslims. I think your stance of "The US Government is my enemy" is clouding your judgment and objectivity. With that stance you have taken, I'm not surprised at all at what you're posting.

[lester1/2jr]

so what are you advocating policy wise?

I mean,  if you believe islam isdedicated to killing every non muslim in the world or whatever that isone thing.  but what are you suggesting be done about it?

i am not trying to change anyones view of islam or the middle east so much as trying to get our government to stop spending my tax dollars on what is an ineffective strategy for combatting it or protecting us from it.

I don't think spending billions on wars in the middle east has done a good job in protecting us from terrorism or stopping terrorism. 



take iraq.  we covertly supported the ooverthrow of the monarchy or whatever it was,  then we supported saddam again iran.  then we sanctioned saddam, then we fought a war against him.


all in all, we spent a ton of time and money  and accopmlished nothing.  this is not a criticism of our actions so much as a general appraisal of what all that stuff ended up being worth.




if we had done absolutely nothing and let things run their course, I maintain we'd not only not have wasted so much money but we and they would most likely be in a far better position.

the world is chaotic.  this is not new


I mean, north korea has an insane dictator.  we haven't invaded north korea and I don't really lose sleep over the fear of an attack from them or the plight of their long suffering people, mainly because i don't see what we could do to change it, though I think if we were to invade north korea we could end up killing a ton of starving north koreans.


let people who live under bad systems continue to untill they can't take it anymore.  let the muslims re establish the caliphate, it will fail like it did before.

we lost vietnam, the vietnamese lived under communism for a couple of decades then decided they'd had enough.  now they are trading with us and begging us to let nike open sweatshops there.  anti war, anti state, pro market!

[ghouck]

so what are you advocating policy wise?

i am not trying to change anyones view of islam or the middle east so much as trying to get our government to stop spending my tax dollars on what is an ineffective strategy for combatting it or protecting us from it.

What YOU believe is ineffective. You said it yourself that we haven't had a major terrorist attack since 9/11, but then of course went on to pull things out of YOUR ass as an alternate explanation. probably probably probably.

I never said anything about changing policy. I never said I had any grand scheme, but "we should just stop pi$$ing them off" is laughable to me. I pointed that out, and you couldn't manage to address it directly. If you read back at the points I've made, the other ones you wouldn't address, but rather changed the subject when approached, you'll see where I'm coming from. You start with some crap about Iran NOT being mere months away from nuclear capabilities, and your 'proof' is that they've been at that point of several years, , I pointed out that that idea is illogical, , and you deflected. You state that Muslims don't hate our way of life, again, more deflection. ER asks a simple, outright and direct question, and again, you just can't take it head-on. See a pattern developing? How many times in the thread have I had to point out that you're trying to push a point I never argued in the first place?

You're right, we do have much different ways of debating. PM me if you want to know what the difference is, because you won't like me posting it in public. 

[lester1/2jr]

why do you always get so excited when we debate stuff?  it's just a thread on the internet, we aren't the heads of rival factions of a political party or something.  nothing we say is of any magnitude.

You said it yourself that we haven't had a major terrorist attack since 9/11

so you attribute this to what then?  I don't know why we haven't had a major terrorist incident.  my GUESS was that most of the real hardcore terrorists went to iraq.  we also have poured alot of moneyi nto homeland security.

so,  I'd say between those two things that's probably why we haven't had another 9/11.  that and no group of people on an airplane would sit still for a terrorist if they took over a plane.  due to cell phone technology that didn't even last long enough to get the 3rd or 4th plane whereever it was supposed to go on 9/11.

how am I deflecting anything or weasel wording.  how does it serve nay purpose of mine to say what I think a reason for something is?

we should just stop pi$$ing them off is laughable

why? why would people want to retaliate against us if they had nothing to retaliate against us over?  al queda hasn't atacked sweden or iceland or many other democratic countries just for existing.   i don't think even the most ardent neoconservative would say that our foreign policy is not one of the main reasons we are disliked in the arab world.  Egypt is a dictatorship, we support it's dictator.  obviously the egyptian people are not going to like us.  would you like someone who supported someone who was oppressing you? 

[your 'proof' is that they've been at that point of several years, , I pointed out that that idea is illogical, , and you deflected

you still don't understand what the article is saying.  the article is saying that iran is HEADED towards having nukes in as soon as a few months, not that their technology is such that they could begin making them now and have some in a few months. 

you are twisting the "months away" phrase.

[Rev. Powell]

I think this is turning into an example of why some people hate political threads.  I wish everyone would try to remember to attack the other poster's position, instead of attacking the other poster. 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if AndyC posted a picture of a dog in this thread at any moment.

[Andrew]

Once again, this political thread is not doing anything productive.  Locked and done.