Tolerance Fails T-Shirt Test

[BTM]

Well, this is an interesting article I found... a 14 year old girl did an experiment where one day she wore a hand made shirt to school that said, "McCain Girl", and surreptitiously recorded all the comments that her fellow students (and some teachers) said to her.  The next, she wore a shirt that said, "Obama Girl" to see if the reactions of her peers changed.

The results were actually quite predictable, but still, it's an interesting article.

You can read about it here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-13-nov13,0,2881384.column?page=1

[indianasmith]

Hardly surprising.  Liberals brag about tolerance, but those of us on the right hand side of the aisle learned long ago that their "tolerance" does not include conservative values.  People used to talk about the Clinton bashers, but I have never in my life heard uglier political hate speech than that directed at Bush over the last 8 years.  Kudos to a brave kid for proving me right!

[WilliamWeird1313]

Well, this is an interesting article I found... a 14 year old girl did an experiment where one day she wore a hand made shirt to school that said, "McCain Girl", and surreptitiously recorded all the comments that her fellow students (and some teachers) said to her.  The next, she wore a shirt that said, "Obama Girl" to see if the reactions of her peers changed.

The results were actually quite predictable, but still, it's an interesting article.

You can read about it here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-13-nov13,0,2881384.column?page=1

That's one seriously flawed experiment. I'm not dismissing the validity of her conclusion, nor am I approving it. The experiment itself is flawed. It should have been two different girls wearing different shirts to school, not one wearing one shirt one day and a different shirt the very next day. Or something similar.

[ER]

I believe it, remember this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI
	Small | Large

But I’m kinda with William here, the same girl wearing conflicting shirts on alternating days might've led to charges of her being a turncoat, and some of the negativity coming from that. But I can say from personal experience having lived in one of those (say that tired phrase with me) "key battleground states" that without question supporters of the Democratic candidate were the ruder, more hostile camp. Just no question. Verbally and in terms of things like vandalism it was almost one-sided.

As for the left’s past hypocritical intolerance, anyone remember the documentary Kurt and Courtney, about one reporter's efforts to look into all those '90's rumors that Courtney killed Kurt? Well, remember how the reporter went to the ACLU convention, the one place on earth where you'd think freedom of speech was enshrined above all others? And then remember when he took to the stage to speak his mind on the ACLU's open mic format, and when he said something unpopular to the crowd, he was not only booed and shouted down but literally removed from the stage? That's about the tone of what I saw in this campaign: talk of freedom on one hand but then intolerance in action from those same people.

Me, I value free speech as a sacred thing, and I’ll point out attacks on it by any group, religious, political, whatever. Just being honest when I say, I saw it coming from one side this year.

[WilliamWeird1313]

Yeah, I’m kinda with William here, the same girl wearing conflicting shirts on alternating days might've led to charges of her being a turncoat, and some of the negativity coming from that. But I can say from personal experience having lived in one of those (say that tired phrase with me) "key battleground states" that without question supporters of the Democratic candidate were the ruder, more hostile camp. Just no question. Verbally and in terms of things like vandalism it was almost one-sided.

As for the left’s past hypocritical intolerance, anyone remember the documentary Kurt and Courtney, about one reporter's efforts to look into all those '90's rumors that Courtney killed Kurt? Well, remember how the reporter went to the ACLU convention, the one place on earth where you'd think freedom of speech was enshrined above all others? And then remember when he took to the stage to speak his mind on the ACLU's open mic format, and when he said something unpopular to the crowd, he was not only booed and shouted down but literally removed from the stage? That's about the tone of what I saw in this campaign: talk of freedom on one hand but then intolerance in action from those same people.

Me, I value free speech as a sacred thing, and I’ll point out attacks on it by any group, religious, political, whatever. Just being honest when I say, I saw it coming from one side this year.

Courtney didn't kill Kurt. She tried. But Kurt killed her, faked his own death, and is now walking around wearing Courtney Love's skin.

On a more serious note, I'm with you when you talk about valuing free speech. I have a real hard-on for the First Amendment (figuratively, of course). Democrat, Republican, Conservative, Liberal, Socialist, Anarchist, whatever. I don't really care. The most important thing to me is free speech and it's important, it seems, to remind people that free speech counts for everybody, not just the people who agree with you. It isn't, after all, popular speech that needs the law on it's side. It's unpopular speech that needs protection. As that over-used and now cliche', but nevertheless eternally relevant, Voltaire quote states: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

For the record, though, I want to make it a point to note that not all those who were Obama supporters were a***oles. I voted for Obama and I didn't once ever shout down, insult, or threaten any McCain supporters. And, remember, the pendulum swings both ways: just like not ALL Obama-voters are a***oles, not ALL McCain supporters aren't. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter which party was MORE of an a***ole, because there's hypocritical intolerance on both sides, and there's free speech defenders on both sides. I think it might be important to remember that the enemy is NOT the Democrats or the Republicans, or any one single party vs. the other. The enemy is oppression, and oppressors come from every walk of life.

On a related note to all this, I think this brings up the question about how a society that values free speech deals with oppressive and/or intolerant speech itself. I think the knee-jerk reaction when you encounter someone spouting oppressive or intolerant ideas and ideals is to try to get them to stop, or to shun them, but isn't that, in itself, an act of oppressiveness and intolerance? Really, the way to deal with that SHOULD be simply to disagree and keep the lines of discussion open for a debate, but us humans are feisty, fiery creatures, and it tends to be hard to keep emotion out of it, to stay calm and intelligent. Free speech is kind of tightrope walk, I think. I mean, when I see a bunch of K.K.K. members standing at some podium spewing their hate-rhetoric, I want to run up there and punch 'em in the nuts. But that reaction is just as intolerant as their own intolerance. Some argue that intolerant and oppressive speech is an exception to the free speech ideology, and should be fought against for the sake of the free speech ideology itself. Me? I take my cues from Larry Flynt, who argues that all speech, ALL SPEECH, including intolerant and oppressive speech, including even speech that is intolerant of free speech, including EVEN anti-free speech free speech, should be protected and defended.

[schmendrik]

Hardly surprising.  Liberals brag about tolerance, but those of us on the right hand side of the aisle learned long ago that their "tolerance" does not include conservative values.  People used to talk about the Clinton bashers, but I have never in my life heard uglier political hate speech than that directed at Bush over the last 8 years.  Kudos to a brave kid for proving me right!

Oh, come on. Is it now time to bring out all the stories about slashed tires and keyed cars because of Obama bumper stickers, about people being arrested for wearing Democratic T-shirts, about Obama banners being set on fire in people's front yards, etc? Heck, one young couple was thrown out of a McCain rally just because they *looked* like Obama supporters (i.e. they were young), even though they were not.

There are many, many, MANY such stories.

I won't generalize if you won't.

[ghouck]

I see what they were trying to prove, but I consider other's statements like "That's one seriously flawed experiment", understatements of the day week year decade millenium. These are mostly kids, kids who jump on any bandwagon they can find as long as they see their peers on it (how else can you explain their tatse in music?, lol). As for the teachers, they only listed one thing that was said, and in fairly open context. BFD. I would bet by the second day, most figured something was up and lost intrest. If you're going to test political climates, kids are the last place you have to look. Just listen to your local high school debate team and you'll see: arguements for arguements sake, it becomes more about getting others to tell you you're right than the real issue. I can tell you this, although I've heard McCain bashing, I also heard some pretty insulting bashing of not only Obama but also blanket generalizations about his supporters. I bet a bunch of those kids didn't even have an opinion, yet alone an intelligent one until people started bashing her. Perhaps they just didn't like HER, let's do the same experiment only we'll use the school's Prom Queen and see what happens, , , just a thought.

[Captain Tars Tarkas]

Hey, remember when the election ended and everyone was glad because that meant the end of partisan fighting in every thread?  We seemed to have jumped back in time a month.

[BTM]

That's one seriously flawed experiment. I'm not dismissing the validity of her conclusion, nor am I approving it. The experiment itself is flawed. It should have been two different girls wearing different shirts to school, not one wearing one shirt one day and a different shirt the very next day. Or something similar.

You know, now that you mentioned it, that would have been a better experiment.

I'd be curious to see how this would turn out had it been done on a college campus (although I think we all know the answer to that).  Or perhaps wondering around the streets of various cities...

[asimpson2006]

That's one seriously flawed experiment. I'm not dismissing the validity of her conclusion, nor am I approving it. The experiment itself is flawed. It should have been two different girls wearing different shirts to school, not one wearing one shirt one day and a different shirt the very next day. Or something similar.

I agree it's flawed in that extent.  The idea of two different people wearing two opposite shirts would be better overall.  To get even a greater idea the same test could be applied however multiple people (let say 6 people each) wear a McCain person shirt then have 6 other people wear an Obama person shirt.  They first ask people who did not voice an opinion already about the shirt, then talk to others who already have been asked again if they still have the same opinion or not.

[ghouck]

Reminds me of an episode of "Manswers" where they had some woman trying to get people to sign a petition, nobody signs when she was wearing clothing that covered her boobs, , but with some cleavage showing they were lining up.