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September 18, 2014, 05:04:56 PM
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Author Topic: Reading anything?  (Read 139476 times)
indianasmith
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« Reply #1455 on: August 19, 2014, 11:15:34 PM »

I love how people who lived two thousand years later think they know Jesus better than the Apostles of His who wrote the New Testament.
To claim there is no Resurrection is to ignore ALL the contemporary evidence!

I guess that's why he's a FORMER monk.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #1456 on: August 20, 2014, 07:54:26 PM »

ER- he's not an antitheist or even an atheist from what I understand. You've probably seen him he's the guy on like Banned from The Bible and those things.

Indiana- his basic point about the resurrecction was

1. part of what made crucifixion so horrible was the fact that your body was usually either eaten by dogs afterwords or buried in a shallow grave and dug up quickly by animals. Jesus didn't mean anything to the Romans the idea that they would take extra care with him makes little sense. The mysterious figure who procures his body, Joseph of whatever, is like come on.

2. the nature of what Christ says after he returns is vague and contains little new knowledge.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 08:05:28 PM by lester1/2jr » Logged

indianasmith
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« Reply #1457 on: August 20, 2014, 11:46:49 PM »

But the historical evidence totally contradicts both of those rather enormous leaps of logic.
First of all, the four Canonical Gospels are the ONLY sources we have for the life of Jesus that are actually based on eyewitness testimony.
Even if you reject the traditional claims of authorship (something that there is no valid historical reason to do), the most skeptical
scholars acknowledge that the three Synoptic Gospels were completed by 70 AD - and I think you can make a very solid case that they
are much earlier than that.  John's Gospel is a smidge later, but all the early histories of the Second Century agree that he lived to be nearly
100 years old and wrote his Gospel near the end of his life.  Paul's letter to the Corinthians is SOLIDLY dated by even the most skeptical
scholars to 54 AD, barely 20 years after the Crucifixion, and he lists multiple eyewitnesses of the risen Christ, and freely acknowledges that,
if Jesus was not raised from the dead, then their faith was in vain and that Christians were the most pathetic people on earth.

And all of this dodges the HUGE, fundamental problem with the "there was no resurrection" argument.
Without the Resurrection there is NO SUCH THING AS CHRISTIANITY!  The entire faith is based on the idea that Jesus conquered death.
That was the Gospel that his disciples were willing to give their lives to proclaim.  The idea that they would dare the wrath of Rome and
the murderous retaliation of the Jewish religious establishment in order to proclaim Jesus as risen when the KNEW he was rotting in a ditch
somewhere is nothing short of ludicrous.
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« Reply #1458 on: August 21, 2014, 07:44:03 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible


"Without the Resurrection there is NO SUCH THING AS CHRISTIANITY! "

so who were the people who were following him before he died? His words and healing and actions transformed their lives

"The idea that they would dare the wrath of Rome and
the murderous retaliation of the Jewish religious establishment in order to proclaim Jesus as risen when the KNEW he was rotting in a ditch
somewhere is nothing short of ludicrous"

They believed in Jesus's message and that he was the fulfillment of the old testament prophecy. Christianity is about that not magic tricks. all the miracles do is confirm the power of his message and to live life as he did after all we can 't turn water into wine
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indianasmith
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« Reply #1459 on: August 21, 2014, 10:10:57 PM »

OK, let me phrase it this way:

FIVE separate written accounts composed within the lifetime of eyewitnesses, or by eyewitnesses, all agree on these fundamentals:
1. Jesus was crucified.
2. He was buried.
3. He rose again.
4. The power of his Resurrection and victory over death are the final proof that he was the Son of God.

NO contemporary source contradicts ANY of these claims.

Now a scholar comes along 2000 years later WITH NO EVIDENCE, ONLY SUPPOSITION, and says that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul were all liars who made it up and founded a new religion based on a known fraud, then died for that fraud . . . or else were too somehow victims of a mass hallucination in which multiple eyewitnesses all saw the same thing: a dead man walking around, talking, alive again.

I choose to believe the guys who were there.

And again, if you don't believe that Christianity was based around the doctrine of the Resurrection, read Peter's challenge to the Sanhedrin in Acts 2 and 3 - issued only weeks after Jesus was killed!  and then Paul's lengthy exposition on the Resurrection in I Corinthians 15.
"If Christ be not raised, your faith is in vain . . ."  Uttered in 54 AD, while most of the Disciples and many other eyewitnesses were still around to verify his claim.

Sorry, not trying to turn this into a flame war, but anyone who dismisses the Resurrection does so only by dismissing the earliest and most reliable accounts we have of those events.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #1460 on: August 21, 2014, 10:59:12 PM »

He's saying if we don't continue with the movement than it will have been in vain. When he died they realized they had to go on being his apostles and spreading his message which was a good idea considering the imperial nature of Rome and the inward looking sometimes harsh worldview of Judaism were not going to move anything forward.

The notion they had of truth back then was different than what we have today. they spoke symbolicaly. Theres no record of Herod having every male child killed, it's an obvious nod to Moses life. The sea was turbulent Jesus made it calm. They couldn't catch fish, he told them where they put the net. There was no net or fish it's just saying your life is lost with God.

Christianity is based on what he taught before he died. the simple words he spoke gave hope to the hopeless and put fear into the hearts of the powerful.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #1461 on: August 22, 2014, 07:16:17 AM »

That makes no sense.  "We're going to honor the most truthful man we have ever known by making up a huge, ridiculous lie about him and telling future generations that their eternal salvation depends on believing this lie?"  After all, the fundamental claim of Christianity is NOT that we are saved by honoring the ethical teachings of Jesus but by embracing His death and resurrection as the price for our sins.

"They understood truth differently" is a dodge. They got it, just as we do today: Truth is stuff that actually happened.  A lie is stuff that is made up.  There's a simple reason Herod's massacre of the infants at Bethlehem wasn't recorded by Josephus, the only other historian of note from that era: at the time Jesus was born, Bethlehem was a tiny town of 200 people or fewer.  The number of boys under the age of 2 would have been small - maybe as few as ten.  Compared to Herod's many other monstrous crimes, it was a small operation, most likely unnoticed outside the tiny town where it happened and largely forgotten by the time Josephus was writing, 90 years later.

Again, to see the earliest, rawest version of the claims of Christianity, read Peter's sermon on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2 and 3.  This was only a few weeks after Jesus' crucifixion, and Peter was already proclaiming the Resurrection of Jesus as proof that he was the Son of God.  Don't you think if Jesus was still dead, someone in the crowd would have stood up and said "Wait a minute!  I was the one who flung his body into the valley of Gehenna!"  But no one did.  There is not a single contemporary source disputing the Resurrection, even from among those who had Jesus put to death.  The silence of his enemies as the disciples began proclaiming Jesus to be risen again is a very compelling argument that he was, in fact, no longer dead.
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BoyScoutKevin
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« Reply #1462 on: August 26, 2014, 03:48:12 PM »

Ye-es!

C. J. Box's
The Highway

When the girlfriend of the teenage son of our hero and her younger sister disappear along a stretch of highway notorious for the number of women who have disappeared along that same stretch of highway, it is up to our hero to find them, before something worst happens to them.

Most writers, both domestic and foreign, swing from the left, but this one is a bit more conservative than that. Which inadvertently or advertently, and there are differences between the two, points out the similarities between the two ends of the political spectrum. I wish I had wrote down the similarities, but I did not, but I do remember, and this does not apply to all, but it does apply to some, that hypocrisy runs rampant at both ends.

The writer also pulls off what I call a "Psycho." I won't say anything more than that, as not to give anything away, but if you read the book, I think you'll see what I mean.


G. Malliet's
Pagan Spring :
a Max Tudor novel
3rd in the Max Tudor series

When the local boy made good as a London actor and playwright returns to his home town to retire, he stirs up animosities, both old and new. No wonder someone wants him dead. But who did it?

Not quite as good as the previous one in the series (IMHO.) (1) Is that the best location for a mystery is an island cut off from the world, the lone house on the moor, or the isolated castle by the sea, as in the previous one, and not the village connected to the world, as in this one. (2) Not from this one, but children should seldom be the villain. As, and there is some proof of this, a child's mind has not developed enough so that they can always tell right from wrong. And I want a villain that does wrong, because they know it is wrong. Still looking forward to the 4th in the series.


H. Terrell Griffin's
Found :
a Matt Royal mystery
8th in the Matt Royal series


Colleen McCullough's
Sins of the flesh
3rd in the Carmine Delmonico series

Women, for the past several years, have been disappearing, never to be seen again from the town. So have several young men, but their bodies are found later, having been starved to death. Are the two connected, and what is the connection, if any, with the town's largest employer, the mental institution at the edge of town?

The 2nd of 3 foreign writers who write a mystery set in the U.S. The 3rd to come later, but like our previous writer, she is writing about an area in which she has lived and worked.

A couple of items of particular note. (1) She is one of the few to include men as victims. Men actually make particularly good victims, because they are so little used as victims, but victim denotes weakness, and God forbid that men be denoted as being weak. (2) And outside of the late Margaret Truman, she is the only mystery writer, who I have found, who includes asexuals, a distinctive sexual orientation, among her characters.

And if the name is familiar, then think "Thorn Birds." And she and her husband live in one of the most remote and exotic parts of the world or Norfolk Island, which is an island some distance off of the Australian coast.


Lynda LaPlante's
Backlash
2nd in the Anna Travis series

When as suspect is found with a dead woman in his vehicle, he comes under suspicion of having been involved in the disappearance and possible murder of several other women.

Again, if the name sounds familiar, then think one of the greatest British police procedures seen on TV or "Prime Suspect." She was responsible for writing much of that limited TV series.


Priscilla Royal's
Covenant with Hell
10th in the medieval mystery series

The king is coming to town and so is a reported assassin. When the only person who knows who is the assassin is killed, then two more people are killed, it is up to our heroes to find who is the assassin and prevent a possible regicide of the king.

What does an ex-nun look like? She looks a lot like the writer. What does a lesbian look like? No way of telling, but the writer does beat the "gay" drum louder than most writers, even though characters that are either lesbian or gay are often found now days in most mysteries.

+ 1 non-fiction

Linda Rodriguez McRobbin's
Princesses behaving  badly :
real stories from history without the fairy tale endings
1st non-fiction book by the writer

30 princesses covered in depth. 34 more covered somewhat more in less depth.
Princesses from 23 to 88. Average age: between 58 and 59.
Princesses from 1508 B.C. to the 21st century.


Next time: still continuing with 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other fiction + 1 non-fiction
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Javakoala
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« Reply #1463 on: August 31, 2014, 01:40:34 PM »

In a far less theological side of things, The Disaster Artist is great book if you wanted to know more about the filming of The Room as well as more about the very weird Tommy Wiseau.

It is shockingly well written. Almost too smoothly put together, but it doesn't let anyone off easy, so it has that going for it.

I wouldn't want to ruin any of the fun for those who wish to read it, but it will send you going back to The Room for addition viewings, just to look for the details mentioned in the book.

Now I need to find a copy of Retro Puppet Master to watch Greg Sestero do a French accent.
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« Reply #1464 on: September 04, 2014, 07:34:34 AM »

I read the book Things That Matter by Dr Charles Krauthammer and enjoyed it up until page 237 where he started to talk BS about South Africa.

I closed the book and have never opened it again: I would like to throw it away but it cost too much.  TongueOut
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BoyScoutKevin
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« Reply #1465 on: September 06, 2014, 03:48:09 PM »

Ye-es! But . . . ?!

What I said I was going to do, I'll postpone to next time, so I can post this, before I lose my notes.

Justin Somper's
Allies and Assassins
1st in the . . .
Archenfield series

When you have a well-written character, as here.
When you have empathy for a character, as here.
You can go beyond what you read and/or see, as here.
Because you have such an outstanding understanding of the character, as here.
So . . .?! Though, little of this is from the book. I do think it is a fairly faithful depiction of the character in the book.

At age 14 . . .
Prince Edvin . . .

Smokes
Wears a monocle
Wears Spanish boots with Cuban heels
Wears a great coat that reaches down to his his ankles and has a collar that is always turned up.
Wears his unruly blond hair past his shirt collar.
But . . .?! is clean shaven, having his man shave him with a straight razor, every morning, as needed.
Does not sit in a chair, but slouches in a chair, which drives his widowed mother wild.
When he was 6 and his older brother was 8, they use to stand on one of the towers of their palace home and urinate on the people below them.
And when they were a year older, they use to sneak out of the palace at night and go skinny dipping in the reflecting pool in the castle gardens.
While younger by 2 years, then his older brother, he was always the more mature of the two.
Was one of those people of whom you say was born "old."
Like his much older brother was to their deceased father, he was his much older brother's standard bearer in battle.
(a) because he was expendable, and his middle brother, the heir to the throne, was not.
(b) and was a much better horseman than his older/middle brother.
(c) and swordsman
(d) and shot
(e) and dancer
But . . .?! not a better ruler, which is why he does not want to be his older brother's heir to the throne, like his older brother was to their much older brother.
Who is dead, and who he misses tremendously. Though, he would never admit it.
Now, that his older brother is ruler, succeeding their father and much older brother, he has his back.
What he saw and heard in battle, still gives him nightmares, 2 years later, which is why he'd be one of the last to advocate going to war with their neighboring kingdoms.
And maybe yes or maybe no, I still have not worked this out, he has a couple of hide-out blades secreted upon his person.

Try this. You'll like it.

Next time: What I said I was going to do last time.
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A.J. Bauer
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« Reply #1466 on: September 14, 2014, 10:10:00 PM »

Oh joy, a theological debate.

Aaaaanyway...

I don't know about "reading" but I got a free Audible.com audio book from the Drunken Peasants podcast.

The book in question is Bram Stoker's Dracula, narrated by Tim Curry and an all-star cast.

You can get a free audio book and a 30 day free trial if you know what link to go to.
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« Reply #1467 on: September 15, 2014, 02:03:38 PM »



Without a doubt the nerdiest thing I've ever ordered as an adult. But the webcomic makes me laugh.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #1468 on: September 15, 2014, 07:50:43 PM »

I am about halfway through Adrian Goldsworthy's CAESAR: THE LIFE OF A COLOSSUS.

Very well written and meticulously researched biography of one of the most fascinating men in history,
Gaius Julius Caesar.  Forget ROME; here is the real Caesar, as nearly as we can reconstruct him two
thousand years after the fact.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #1469 on: September 15, 2014, 08:19:31 PM »



Gregory of Nyssa's Life of Moses
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