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Author Topic: the RAMONES  (Read 7305 times)
Allhallowsday
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« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2009, 10:29:52 PM »

ok my first post in close to 3 years, wow  BounceGiggle

I think garage rock was EXTREMELY influential to what punk evolved into, it's just nowhere near as mainstream and known as 70s-later punk. Of course "garage rock" was a term made up in the 70s, these bands just called it rock n roll for the most part I'm sure. It's really under-acknowledged unfortunately. Maybe that's a good thing though, it's kind of a very small collector community.
Not anymore. 
Frankly a lot of 60s garage (way more than you'd think) is more extreme, faster, and angrier than 70's punk ever was. Stuff like the MC5 and Stooges is a whole different thing that I'm personally not a fan of. The Velvet Underground were much more of an art rock band.
Anyway if you want to really experience 60s garage you have to search out compilations- that's where the best stuff resides. It was a singles genre really, there are few albums that stand out from the pack and are solid the whole way through. Compilations like back from the grave, teenage shutdown, pebbles, etc etc (it's really an endless pit when you start getting into it) Nuggets is a mix of 60s styles with mostly only more professional kind of garage acts being included (by that I mean standells, blues magoos, etc- ones on major labels with albums)

If I had to pick between 60s garage and 70s-80s punks, it's definitely a no contest win for the 60s stuff. It's more consistent with better musicianship, memorable hooks and lyrics, not to mention better influences (British Invasion bands)

Here's some examples of 60s garage that out snarls and is more edgy than lots of bands in the 70s deemed punk. It really brings the whole labeling thing into question...

Gee "singles..." yup that was the whole point of 1970s Punk; didn't I say that?  It's true it's so often overlooked. Uhm 70s Punk "emulating" 60s Garage, I'm quoting myself but don't we agree?  Everyone who ever joined, founded, or listened to a Punk band found some "Proto-Punk" or "Garage Rock Band" to listen to, emulate, aspire towards... welcome back, you certainly precede me, if not echo.   Thumbup 
I don't understand your dismissal of bands like THE MC5, THE STOOGES or the "Art Rock" of VELVET UNDERGROUND.  There is a lot of anger and noise in those bands which bridge the gap between the brilliant, but even you admit, obscure influence of most Garage bands, and the 70s Punks, not so highly regarded then, but certainly today, not to mention the music you mentioned, y'know: "...extreme, faster, and angrier..." on these bands' records more than most. 

Agreed: NUGGETS collection which includes semi-known acts like THE ELECTRIC PRUNES, BALLOON FARM, HARBINGER COMPLEX, MOUSE & THE TRAPS, THE AMBOY DUKES, THE BEES... is essential.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 11:54:08 PM by Allhallowsday » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2009, 02:11:45 AM »

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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2009, 11:52:42 AM »

I wasn't trying to dismiss what you were saying at all. I think garage music is very misunderstood and if I could jump in and add a post explaining why I love it why not? It rarely even gets a mention when "punk" music is brought up.

One thing kind of left out in this discussion is the garage revival bands- thee headcoats, miracle workers, creatures of the golden dawn, cynics, stems, etc. that came out in the early 80s. I'm not a big fan of a lot of these bands but they're worth checking into in some cases. These bands were more aware of 60s garage than most punk bands for sure. The late 70s/early 80s punks were influenced by bands who were influenced by garage rock like say the ramones or saints, more like a chain reaction down the line. I don't think lots of them were even aware of garage rock, not everybody had nuggets when it came out in '72 or pebbles when it was out in '79.

The stooges and MC5 aren't my cup of tea. It's just my personal opinion really, they're more like extremely overrated heavy rock. Influential and all but why do I have to love them? The stuff the MC5 did when they first started (singles) are OK with me but not much else. There's other bands that were pretty similar to them about the same time that don't get any mention anymore, one being The Up.

The only reason 60s garage was often a singles scene was out of necessity mostly. These were mostly teenage bands with little money to spend. They couldn't record a full album of songs and much more radio focus was on singles, so they would pay the fee, press some singles on a small label and sell them at their shows. With the 70s punks I still think it was more about albums even. They were in an era after progressive rock and it was rebellion from that but even still albums were much more common place and accepted at that time than the mid 60s.

I wouldn't class the electric prunes or amboy dukes as semi-known (at least on the nuggets scale). Prunes had close to a US top ten hit (it made 11), dukes had a hit as well as Ted Nugent who went on to be huge. Amboy Dukes might be the only band I'm not a fan of on the nuggets set. The most obscure ones on there are the bees, third bardo, dovers, groupies, and a few others, the ones only limited to really obscure singles. I recommend back from the grave and teenage shutdown if you want to dig deeper (nuggets without the pop and psych flavor so much, harder edged punkier tracks) and then there's about 1,000 other compilations out there.

some of the most brilliant cover art ever I think


ok my first post in close to 3 years, wow  BounceGiggle

I think garage rock was EXTREMELY influential to what punk evolved into, it's just nowhere near as mainstream and known as 70s-later punk. Of course "garage rock" was a term made up in the 70s, these bands just called it rock n roll for the most part I'm sure. It's really under-acknowledged unfortunately. Maybe that's a good thing though, it's kind of a very small collector community.
Not anymore. 
Frankly a lot of 60s garage (way more than you'd think) is more extreme, faster, and angrier than 70's punk ever was. Stuff like the MC5 and Stooges is a whole different thing that I'm personally not a fan of. The Velvet Underground were much more of an art rock band.
Anyway if you want to really experience 60s garage you have to search out compilations- that's where the best stuff resides. It was a singles genre really, there are few albums that stand out from the pack and are solid the whole way through. Compilations like back from the grave, teenage shutdown, pebbles, etc etc (it's really an endless pit when you start getting into it) Nuggets is a mix of 60s styles with mostly only more professional kind of garage acts being included (by that I mean standells, blues magoos, etc- ones on major labels with albums)

If I had to pick between 60s garage and 70s-80s punks, it's definitely a no contest win for the 60s stuff. It's more consistent with better musicianship, memorable hooks and lyrics, not to mention better influences (British Invasion bands)

Here's some examples of 60s garage that out snarls and is more edgy than lots of bands in the 70s deemed punk. It really brings the whole labeling thing into question...

Gee "singles..." yup that was the whole point of 1970s Punk; didn't I say that?  It's true it's so often overlooked. Uhm 70s Punk "emulating" 60s Garage, I'm quoting myself but don't we agree?  Everyone who ever joined, founded, or listened to a Punk band found some "Proto-Punk" or "Garage Rock Band" to listen to, emulate, aspire towards... welcome back, you certainly precede me, if not echo.   Thumbup 
I don't understand your dismissal of bands like THE MC5, THE STOOGES or the "Art Rock" of VELVET UNDERGROUND.  There is a lot of anger and noise in those bands which bridge the gap between the brilliant, but even you admit, obscure influence of most Garage bands, and the 70s Punks, not so highly regarded then, but certainly today, not to mention the music you mentioned, y'know: "...extreme, faster, and angrier..." on these bands' records more than most. 

Agreed: NUGGETS collection which includes semi-known acts like THE ELECTRIC PRUNES, BALLOON FARM, HARBINGER COMPLEX, MOUSE & THE TRAPS, THE AMBOY DUKES, THE BEES... is essential.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 12:35:41 PM by StatCat » Logged

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Allhallowsday
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« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2009, 09:25:12 PM »

I wasn't trying to dismiss what you were saying at all. I think garage music is very misunderstood and if I could jump in and add a post explaining why I love it why not? It rarely even gets a mention when "punk" music is brought up.
One thing kind of left out in this discussion is the garage revival bands- thee headcoats, miracle workers, creatures of the golden dawn, cynics, stems, etc. that came out in the early 80s. I'm not a big fan of a lot of these bands but they're worth checking into in some cases. These bands were more aware of 60s garage than most punk bands for sure. The late 70s/early 80s punks were influenced by bands who were influenced by garage rock like say the ramones or saints, more like a chain reaction down the line. I don't think lots of them were even aware of garage rock, not everybody had nuggets when it came out in '72 or pebbles when it was out in '79.
Let's clarify, Potatah, THE RAMONES emulated THE BEATLES, STONES, BUDDY HOLLY, and perhaps knew many of those bands we honor as "Garage" by having bought the 45s when they were new.  "Garage" is a label, and that which might be so labeled I love

The stooges and MC5 aren't my cup of tea. It's just my personal opinion really, they're more like extremely overrated heavy rock. Influential and all but why do I have to love them? The stuff the MC5 did when they first started (singles) are OK with me but not much else. There's other bands that were pretty similar to them about the same time that don't get any mention anymore, one being The Up.
Hoo boy, you gotta book... don't you?  If bands that aren't your "cup of tea" are "extremely overrated heavy rock..."  could it be possible you just don't listen to them?  Lookingup What MC5 singles are you referring to? They had no charters...

MC5's album Back In The USA is a "Punk" primer. If you listen to it, you'd be surprised how they'd adapted from their successful debut.  Thin, really, by comparison with Kick Out The Jams. Have you listened to THE STOOGES, VELVET UNDERGROUND or MC5?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 09:30:07 PM by Allhallowsday » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2009, 09:54:13 PM »

besides those, the ramones were very aware of 60s garage rock, there was their covers album acid eaters, there was also the vagrants,

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Limo/3942/vagrants.html

I've listened to albums by both the stooges and MC5, could do without both of them, the mc5 moreso. I think they're both overrated.

I was referring to this, a early singles, demos, live compilation with songs recorded long before their first album came out. Do you know it?  I don't love everything on it but it might be the only mc5 I do like because some of it sounds like a different band.


I never said anywhere I don't dislike the velvet underground but to me it's kind of like saying silver apples, fifty foot hose, united states of america were proto-punk or something.

Have you listened to back from the grave? Nuggets is a kind of a simplified rock journalists kind of view of 60s garage, just like I think just pinpointing the mc5 or stooges as the end all of influences to punk falls into the same trap a bit. I'm not saying you're doing it but many people just say they were the bands that created punk.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 10:15:32 PM by StatCat » Logged

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Allhallowsday
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« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2009, 10:13:19 PM »

I listen to this collection most often, but have their albums, and had them on vinyl.  I really love the MC5:
The Big Bang! Best of the MC5
 
I really appreciate your comments regarding SILVER APPLES and FIFTY FOOT HOSE.  I really admire the NY and SFO bands.   Smile Created Punk?  Who knows... PATTI SMITH... or was it DAVE "BABY" CORTEZ?
 
What do you think of BLUE CHEER...?  Smile
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 11:52:32 PM by Allhallowsday » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2009, 08:40:44 AM »

.
Let's clarify, Potatah, THE RAMONES emulated THE BEATLES, STONES, BUDDY HOLLY, and perhaps knew many of those bands we honor as "Garage" by having bought the 45s when they were new.  "Garage" is a label, and that which might be so labeled I love

Hoo boy, you gotta book... don't you?  If bands that aren't your "cup of tea" are "extremely overrated heavy rock..."  could it be possible you just don't listen to them?  Lookingup What MC5 singles are you referring to? They had no charters...

MC5's album Back In The USA is a "Punk" primer. If you listen to it, you'd be surprised how they'd adapted from their successful debut.  Thin, really, by comparison with Kick Out The Jams. Have you listened to THE STOOGES, VELVET UNDERGROUND or MC5?
[/quote]
That's one thing I love about the Ramones, too.  The fact that they would openly emulate, and express their love for, mid '50s- '60s Pop/rock.  I'd even argue some of their songs have a similar feel to the Beach Boys at times.  Probably intentional, but fun as hell. 

Both The Stooges and MC5 are decent, but I can see how they may 'turn off' audiences, to a degree.  The Sex Pistols are the same way.  There's a hell of a lot of people that do not like the Pistols (I'm a fan), but most everyone agrees, to a degree, that they have a place in 'history.'  When it comes down to it, I think I'd prefer the Stooges to MC5, though.
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« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2009, 09:58:59 AM »

MC5 were a fabulous band!  Thumbup
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« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2009, 07:23:23 PM »

MC5 were a fabulous band!  Thumbup
I'm not saying they're bad.  I just prefer the Stooges.
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« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2009, 01:24:19 AM »

besides those, the ramones were very aware of 60s garage rock, there was their covers album acid eaters, there was also the vagrants,

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Limo/3942/vagrants.html

I've listened to albums by both the stooges and MC5, could do without both of them, the mc5 moreso. I think they're both overrated.
I was referring to this, a early singles, demos, live compilation with songs recorded long before their first album came out. Do you know it?  I don't love everything on it but it might be the only mc5 I do like because some of it sounds like a different band.

The Rhino collection I displayed has several early tracks, which are quite "garage" including 3 from that collection.  I like all MC5. My love of THE STOOGES and MC5 and admiration for VELVET UNDERGROUND has almost nothing to do with Punk - to me.  They're now admired decades after they could have used a cash infusion, but nonetheless, I like all of the records by all of those bands, and at least 2 or 3 rank as all time favorites.  I like some Punk, and grew up on it, but even earlier was listening to BEATLES, ANIMALS, LOU CHRISTIE, PET CLARK, STONES, BEACH BOYS, RICKY NELSON, and many more '50s and obscure '60s artists we now love.  40+ years ago, us younger ones inherited an enormous number of 45s and some key LPs (my brother's and cousin's, both much older, all played on a portable plug in record player). 

I never said anywhere I don't dislike the velvet underground but to me it's kind of like saying silver apples, fifty foot hose, united states of america were proto-punk or something.
I don't think VELVET UNDERGROUND were as off center as the bands you mention, which in many ways were ahead of their time. 

Have you listened to back from the grave? Nuggets is a kind of a simplified rock journalists kind of view of 60s garage, just like I think just pinpointing the mc5 or stooges as the end all of influences to punk falls into the same trap a bit. I'm not saying you're doing it but many people just say they were the bands that created punk.
Nuggets was there before any other compilation, and the CD release adds even more great singles.  Pebbles diligently covered all the more obscure and overlooked gems.  Back From The Grave has just been added to my Amazon (enemy of the people) cart - thanks to you!   TeddyR

I wouldn't say that THE STOOGES or MC5 "created" Punk - not by a longshot.  I did point out THE STOOGES original name was THE PSYCHEDELIC STOOGES.  The label "Punk" is for those '70s bands; "'60s Punk" is now called "Garage" but I think we'd agree.  I'd rather listen to "'60s Punk" than "'70s Punk". 
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« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2009, 09:55:50 PM »

Getting back on track and in honor of all my April birthdays, here's the way we like our RAMONES:

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« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 09:59:46 PM by Allhallowsday » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2009, 09:28:29 AM »

The Ramones without a doubt is my favorite punk band. Definitly the band to start with if your interested in punk music.
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« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2009, 12:52:47 PM »

I saw the Ramones live in concert 3 times (all in Boston).  What an experience.  The first time I saw them was at Boston University.  Someone in the audience spit on Joey Ramone's shirt.  Joey just looked down at the spit, left it there, and kept singing without missing a beat.
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« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2009, 10:21:00 PM »

I listen to this collection most often, but have their albums, and had them on vinyl.  I really love the MC5:
The Big Bang! Best of the MC5

 
What do you think of BLUE CHEER...?  Smile
I've since changed my original opinion of MC5.  Always preferred the Stooges, but have since heard a bit of MC5 and I gotta say, they get a  Thumbup in my book.

Can't say I'm an EXPERT on them, as I only know a little bit of their stuff, but this weekend, I'm going to a store to see if they have any.  This past week, I've had ZERO luck in about 4 different stores trying to find ANY MC5.
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