The Star Wars Love/Hate Thread

[Mr. DS]

I've seen a few discussions popping up on the board regarding Star Wars.  I have been a Star Wars fan most of my life but I find most of the little world Lucas created, its either love or hate for me.  For example;

I love the evil characters in the Star Wars universe.  The Emperor, General Grievous, Vader, Maul, Boba Fett, Tyranus etc.  I feel they are compelling and their actions are more than treacherous. 

However...

I hate the fact Lucas seems to isolate them focus wise.  When they are on screen they're magic but sadly, most of them take a huge back burner for idiotic characters/plot lines like Jar Jar Binks or Anakin and Padme's love affair. 

So what are you loves or gripes (if any) about the Star Wars Universe?

[Jack]

Star Wars - loved it.  Darned near perfect movie.  Ah hell, it was perfect.  Except when Leia said "I smelled your foul stench the moment I came aboard".  That could have used a second take.

Empire Strikes Back - very good, but I didn't think the whole city in the clouds thing fit very well.  Still, few complaints.

Return of the Jedi - not so hot.  We start right out with Luke reciting some horrible dialog, and doing it horribly, then we progress into Ewoks and C3PO acting so silly it was embarrassing.  About the only cool part was the big space battle at the end.  Oh, and Leia in her bikini.

Phantom Menace - Well, the dialog and acting were horrible.  Jar Jar Binks - what can you say?  The battle at the end was a joke, with little Annie single-handedly defeating the Trade Federation, even though he's never flown a fighter before.  He defeats them accidentally I guess. 

Attack of the Clones - Dialog and acting are still horrible, but this movie at least brought back the sense of fun that we expect from the franchise.  I liked it overall.  Good plot, switching between Annakin's stuff and Obi-Wan's stuff, kept it interesting.  The special effects were cool.

Revenge of the Sith - Dialog and acting still horrible.  The plot was okay, I enjoy seeing all those dopey Jedi getting whacked.  The big battle on the lava planet was lame, looked like a video game.  Wasn't terrible overall, some of the earlier action sequences were actually pretty cool.

I don't really hate the new trilogy as much as most people, but I don't disagree with their criticisms either.  Probably the best quote on the subject was someone who said "The original trilogy brought out the little kid in everyone.  The new trilogy was something only a little kid could love."

[peter johnson]

Put me down as someone who didn't get it then, and doesn't get it now --

I saw the original on a Cinerama screen when it first came out, just before leaving for India for the next 2 years.  In 1977, any bar in Goa on a weeknight was weirder than the famous Cantina scene . . .

The part that put me off right away was the whole "noise in space" thing.  Yes, it's supposed to be a fairy story, "long ago and far away", etc., but wooshing, roaring spaceships in the vaccum of space just didn't cut it for me.  Plus, it set the stage for more Noise in Space moments from supposedly more serious space fictions to come.  I miss the elegance of "2001".  Also, I was put off by the wooden acting & forced dialogue from the principles, with the exception of Peter Cushing and Alec Guiness, who know a thing or 2 about acting.

I did go back to the theatre to see the second one, which I enjoyed much more, as it was more of a non-stop actioner, with no time to think or reflect.  Just a calorie-free carnival ride, instantly forgettable.

I've seen the others as well, more out of a sense of duty to pop culture -- which fascinates me no end -- than expecting any actual enjoyment.  I really REALLY hated the new ones -- That small kid "actor"!!  Did they hold a contest to see if they could find the single dullest, plastic, kid that gave the worst line-reading???  And Natalie Portman . . . I see she gets work -- Why?  I know grade-schoolers who can give a more convincing performance.

peter johnson/denny crane

[MilkManPictures]

Do you think kids are as captivated by the new trilogy as we were by the original trilogy?

[AndyC]

Do you think kids are as captivated by the new trilogy as we were by the original trilogy?

Probably not. The original trilogy had a lot less competition. Star Wars was one of the movies that ushered in the age of the blockbuster. Today, blockbuster is the norm.

What I can say I like most about the Star Wars series is the scale. Capital ships that can be measured in miles, space stations that pass for moons, superweapons that can blast a whole planet to bits. That and it really had the look of a high-tech civilization that had been around for millennia and is now going to seed. The hodgepodge of technology, much of it looking worn out and patched up. In the original trilogy, the Imperial forces seem to be the only ones using anything new.

One complaint I have is the growing amount of crap included for no reason other than merchandising. Merchandising was always big, but it started out as something extra that came out of the first movie. By the second, merchandising concerns played a big part in shaping the story. And the crap factory was in full swing by the time ROTJ came out. So we had Jabba's palace weirdos, the Ewoks, a whole bunch more aliens and droids. And every funny-looking guy who appears momentarily in the background has a name and a backstory. I enjoyed all three of the original movies, but ROTJ was really going too far. And it was many times worse in the prequels. The Phantom Menace had whole scenes that served no visible purpose except to sell toys and video games. And the trend continued through two more movies.

But my biggest beef is with George Lucas and his ever-worsening case of the cutes. It started with Yoda, who was a decent character, but as a Frank Oz character, he moved and talked like Grover. From there, the muppet floodgates just seemed to burst open. ROTJ gave us, among other things, the pig guards. The Ewoks were bad, but the pig guards were far worse. They didn't look the least bit lifelike. They were actors in cartoony-looking muppet suits who moved around like actors in suits. It honestly looked like Jabba's palace was guarded by amusement park mascots. And, of course, the prequels gave us out-and-out cartoon characters. Just look at Watto or anybody in the pod race.

[Sister Grace]

Do you think kids are as captivated by the new trilogy as we were by the original trilogy?

I'm not sure, but my daughter watches the animated series of the Clone Wars on Cartoon Network religously. Amazing, you can't get them to understand fractions but yet she can keep up with the politics of the Clone Wars..

[Javakoala]

When I was younger, I went apesh*t over this series. The original trilogy was my favorite. I was very excited by the whole thing because it was fun.

Then it was a case of every time it was brought up, you had some uber dork who studied every frame, trolled for every bit of character info and was caught up in the mythology. You couldn't just talk about it because one of these jackasses would start correcting everyone and launching into long theories about this and that. I simply ceased to care when it went from fun to fanatical.

Every big series has this kind of thing, but I think I took this happening to Star Wars more personally because it was something for my generation, just a bunch of geeky kids who liked action and science-fiction and fantasy because it was different. It wasn't a religion when it started. And, like any religion, it got out of hand and now should be banned from public expression. Not the movies, just the psycho dorks.  The movies just kinda look pretty on the shelf.

[HappyGilmore]

Star Wars- I watched about the first twenty minutes or so of the original.  Saw Mark Hamill walking through a desert, looking bored, talking to a tin can and overgrown Oscar award.  Got so bored by this, I said to myself, "Good God, how this became a hit, I'll never know."

Didn't bother with it's two sequels.

Then, about ten years ago, August, Phantom Menace comes out.  My friends call, say, "Hey, we're going to the movies, wanna go?"  I say yes.  Then, we get there and they go, "We're seeing Phantom Menace."  Despite my best arguments, they decided to see it.  I knew I'd hate it going in, but didn't have a ride home.  I watched it, and thought Jar Jar was the BEST part of it.  Friends hated it.  I gave Clones a shot on HBO but overall didn't like it.

My overall opinion is that George Lucas got REALLY, REALLY lucky with it.  Fortunately there's enough nerds (sorry people) that will keep his wallet fat by buying up the related merchandise.

That's my two cents.

[AndyC]

Then it was a case of every time it was brought up, you had some uber dork who studied every frame, trolled for every bit of character info and was caught up in the mythology. You couldn't just talk about it because one of these jackasses would start correcting everyone and launching into long theories about this and that. I simply ceased to care when it went from fun to fanatical.

It is ironic that something meant to invoke the cheesy fun of old-time sci-fi serials ended up getting taken so seriously. Star Wars wasn't good science fiction, it was space opera, a fun adventure movie. That's why I tended to like Star Wars better than Star Trek as I got older. It was, at one time, less prone to people obsessing over little technical details and other crap. It was entertainment. Sadly, that didn't last.

[Mr. DS]

Where Lucas got Muppet happy as Andy C pointed out, he went CG crazy in the prequels.   The kicker is, it really isn't even good CG.  If you look at Yoda in CG, he doesn't hold a candle to puppet Yoda of Empire.  

Sister pointed out The Clone Wars on Cartoon Network and I have to admit I like it.  I do catch the occasional episode and like how they're brining us worlds we'd probably never see in a live action endeavor.  That and a little more character development for some of the more interesting characters.  

Another thing Lucas burns me on is his need for revisions.  All these enhanced versions of the original prequels are ridiculous and mostly uneeded.  Its would be like an artist taking a piece of their artwork and drawing over it with crayons.  

For all the SW haters, I understand.  I can see how people don't understand the appeal.  The concept in it's form is quite goofy.    I think what has sold me is the characters and the action.  Technically this film could have ended up on the B-rack and as Happy said above me, Lucas got lucky.  Very lucky.  

[flackbait]

I actually liked the original series. But Its been ages since I've seen it.

 I caught a glimpse of the clone wars dialogue between Anakin and the girl he was courting (Padme?) and that 5 mins was enough for me to not watch the rest of the new ones. So is the rest of the dialogue that bad?

[schmendrik]

I actually liked the original series. But Its been ages since I've seen it.

 I caught a glimpse of the clone wars dialogue between Anakin and the girl he was courting (Padme?) and that 5 mins was enough for me to not watch the rest of the new ones. So is the rest of the dialogue that bad?

Well, here's an example I remember (not verbatim), and I'll try to be respectful. Queen Amidala hooks up with Anakin and apparently in this galaxy far, far away, it's 1950 because married women just sit around their apartments all day fretting even if they were powerful queens on their own planets. You know that Anakin is supposed to somehow be evolving from Jedi Knight to Darth Vader. So what does that evolution consist of? One day in the apartment Padme confronts him: Padme: "You're changing. You're... EVIL." Anakin: "ARRRR". And that's it. We've now dealt with how Anakin went from Good to EVIL.

OK, he didn't say ARRR. He probably said some actual words. But that was basically the entire scene.

I don't think Lucas has any concept of characters and emotions. These are action figures he just has to have execute a series of plot points he's decided. It makes for dull stuff and I don't understand why he didn't have actual writers work on this stuff. Good writers could really have made for some more lasting movies. Good sci-fi writers might have made some great movies.

[asimpson2006]

I'm not a huge Star Wars fan but I do enjoy both the original trilogy and the new trilogy though the original trilogy is better than the new trilogy.  I did have some problems with the new trilogy mainly with some character development parts and some characters in general.  Jar-Jar could have been done away completely as I wanted to take a gun and shoot a character so much as him.  Some of the dialog in the new trilogy is poorly acted.  While I think the script was good, it was acted a bit hammed in a way.  

[AndyC]

Where Lucas got Muppet happy as Andy C pointed out, he went CG crazy in the prequels.   The kicker is, it really isn't even good CG.  If you look at Yoda in CG, he doesn't hold a candle to puppet Yoda of Empire.

Muppet happy! What a great way of putting it.

[HappyGilmore]

For all the SW haters, I understand.  I can see how people don't understand the appeal.  The concept in it's form is quite goofy.    I think what has sold me is the characters and the action.  Technically this film could have ended up on the B-rack and as Happy said above me, Lucas got lucky.  Very lucky.  

And the odd thing is, I like B-movies.  I can somewhat appreciate the appeal that the movies have.  Lord knows I've liked plenty of nerdy things (Ninja Turtles, Power Rangers) in my time.  I just don't think it's done all that well, at least for my odd tastes.  Plus the main thing that irritates me is Lucas's wish to keep re-releasing the movies, filling them with new special effects and "Lost scenes" added.  Honestly, the lost scenes are just deleted scenes that weren't good enough to be there originally, so why people bother going to see the re-release is beyond me.