TERRIBLE 5.1 remixes and altered sounds on DVD

[Jim H]

One of the things I find incredibly angrifying are DVDs that don't have the original sound mix.  I WANT the original mono on older films, or the original stereo, etc.  But, I can deal with it if there is a very well-done surround remix. 

In the best cases of 5.1 remixes, they merely reuse the existing sounds and give them dimension.  I'd prefer having BOTH this version and the original mono/stereo, but I can deal with just the one.  What I REALLY CAN'T STAND is when they replace sound effects with brand new ones.  This, to me, can be as denigrating and destructive to the original film as cropping a Cinemascope film to 4:3 is.  It's especially bad because frequently the new sound effects simply do NOT blend in well with the old sound effects that are still around, and they simply sound way out of place. 

Here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlQ_iyQ61ig
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Compare the gunshots at :58 through 1:14 with the return gunfire from the thug at 1:15.  Also, note how terribly out of place and poorly blended (both in terms of aural placement and volume levels) the sounds of glass shattering, ricochets, etc, is.  This is not at all apparent in the original mix  Thankfully, my DVD of the film has a much better version of the audio.  Here's a very bad quality version with the original audio intact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxKFVaQgoWM
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This is extremely common on the DVDs of the HK films that I love like this one, but it is far from the only place that it is found.  One of the most obvious is the Terminator 1 DVD, where the 5.1 remix gunshots sound... Neutered.  Thankfully, though, the Terminator DVD has the original mono mix.

I'm trying to make a compilation of clips showcasing this phenomena for a video I'm making - I'd like people to become more aware that this desecration is going on.  Has anyone else experienced this problem, or can they name particular examples? 

[akiratubo]

The 5.1 mix of The Terminator has the worst gun and explosion effects I've ever heard.  Thankfully, someone saw fit to include the orginal mono mix.  If I ever meet the person that decided to include it, I'm buying him/her a beer.

[Jack]

Nightmare on Elm Street.  The 5.1 mix is just awful.  There's a lot of really quiet dialog in the movie, if you turn up the volume loud enough to hear that, just wait until the theme music starts playing.  It almost blew my surround sound speakers off the wall. 

Night of the Werewolf with Paul Naschy - the English 5.1 track sounds like they took the mono track and just ran it through all 5 speakers.  Dialog comes from every direction at once - and only 1 person is speaking.  Bizarre.

Curse of the Zombies - the old Hammer film I've got on VHS.  The whole soundtrack is just fine, except for the voodoo drums that play at various times.  They're WAY too loud in the mix, and make my center channel speaker buzz like it's about ready to explode.

[Jim H]

Oh man, there are probably 5000 films on DVD where the dialogue is mixed in way too quietly.  I hate that.   

[Trevor]

My brother bought me a copy of What's New p***ycat? on DVD last year ~ the sound was mono and the DVD's sound has obviously been boosted to stereo or possibly 5.1. The film itself is fine but Tom Jones in the opening credits sounds like he has a major sore throat and he's about to release a major loogey or "greenie" as we say in South Africa.  

[Trevor]

Whoops, seems like I can't use that part of that film's title!   

[Torgo]

I have never understood why a lot of dvd's don't include the original audio track whether that be mono or 2 channel stereo.  I'm glad that you all already mentioned the first Terminator SE dvd. The 5.1 mix is horrendous on that one. I also hate how they altered sound effects on the 5.1 mix for Jaws.

[The Burgomaster]

The 5.1 soundtrack on GONE WITH THE WIND is a waste.  Most of the movie sounds like it's mono anyway, but occasionally there's a gunshot or something that comes through a different speaker.

I also bought the two MONKEES TV show boxed sets that have 5.1 soundtracks.  The sound comes through really weird . . . hollow or something . . . it requires some adjusting of audio levels and tone to get it to sound decent.

[Jim H]

I have never understood why a lot of dvd's don't include the original audio track whether that be mono or 2 channel stereo.  I'm glad that you all already mentioned the first Terminator SE dvd. The 5.1 mix is horrendous on that one. I also hate how they altered sound effects on the 5.1 mix for Jaws.

Yeah, it's especially a waste with mono, which requires very minimal amounts of track space - it's not like it would cause them to have degrade the video quality to fit.

Keep 'em coming if you got them guys.

[asimpson2006]

I have never understood why a lot of dvd's don't include the original audio track whether that be mono or 2 channel stereo.  I'm glad that you all already mentioned the first Terminator SE dvd. The 5.1 mix is horrendous on that one. I also hate how they altered sound effects on the 5.1 mix for Jaws.

Yeah, it's especially a waste with mono, which requires very minimal amounts of track space - it's not like it would cause them to have degrade the video quality to fit.

Keep 'em coming if you got them guys.

The only reason I could think of that the mono would not be included if the orginal sound master was not in good enough quality to restore completely but I'm not an expert with audio so this is just a speculation of mine.

[Jack]

If the movie was originally in mono, the 5.1 track would have to be created from the mono track.  I believe they don't include it because they just don't think anyone would be interested.  You can put quite a bit of stuff on a DVD, but too much data compression will eventually result in a noticeable loss of picture quality, so I guess it's a balancing act.  The movie, trailers, special features, commentary track(s), Dolby 5.1 and Dolby 2.0, maybe a DTS track, a couple of mono tracks in different languages;  You eventually get to the point where the data is so heavily compressed that the picture quality starts to look like crap.

[akiratubo]

If the movie was originally in mono, the 5.1 track would have to be created from the mono track.  I believe they don't include it because they just don't think anyone would be interested.  You can put quite a bit of stuff on a DVD, but too much data compression will eventually result in a noticeable loss of picture quality, so I guess it's a balancing act.  The movie, trailers, special features, commentary track(s), Dolby 5.1 and Dolby 2.0, maybe a DTS track, a couple of mono tracks in different languages;  You eventually get to the point where the data is so heavily compressed that the picture quality starts to look like crap.

Well, they could leave out all the useless trailers/previews and special features.  Just give me the movie, damn it!

[Jim H]

If the movie was originally in mono, the 5.1 track would have to be created from the mono track.  I believe they don't include it because they just don't think anyone would be interested.  You can put quite a bit of stuff on a DVD, but too much data compression will eventually result in a noticeable loss of picture quality, so I guess it's a balancing act.  The movie, trailers, special features, commentary track(s), Dolby 5.1 and Dolby 2.0, maybe a DTS track, a couple of mono tracks in different languages;  You eventually get to the point where the data is so heavily compressed that the picture quality starts to look like crap.

The point is, mono and 2.0 tracks take up very little space.  Literally like 1/20th the video space.  Considering how few DVDs have more than perhaps two audio tracks, and that many high quality special editions sometimes have 3 or 4 without compression issue, I don't think space considerations are much of an issue.

I've done DVD authoring before; it really isn't that hard or that big of a deal to do it.  In fact, many Hollywood DVDs have quite a bit of unused space on them, believe it or not.   I might add Blu-Rays don't fix this issue, and believe me, space for audio is NOT an issue on a 25 gig disc.

In the end though, the biggest issue for me isn't that they're making a remix, it's more that they often change the original audio so much, via adding new sound effects, removing old ones, and altering the existing ones.  I also feel it's inappropriate in general for older films (pre-1960s) to have heavy surround use; it just doesn't fit.

Another example I found recently is the DVD of An American Werewolf in London.  I've heard mixed things about it, but it has significant altered sound and added sound effects.  It's funny, I own it on DVD, but the only time I've ever watched it it was the original sound as I watched it on VHS.

[BoyScoutKevin]

Whoops, seems like I can't use that part of that film's title!   

Well, if you can't use that part of the film title, then "Are You Being Served . . . ?'s"
Mrs. Slocombe (Mollie Sugden) would have a heck of a time trying to post anything on this board.