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Ash
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« on: January 26, 2010, 03:08:51 AM »

Maybe you guys could help me on this.

As some of you know, I created Eastern Iowa Airsoft last summer and host Airsoft skirmishes for pay on my friend's private property.
A lot of people have been joining up on my EIA Facebook group page and some have been asking if there is a team or a squad associated with it.
We currently don't have one. 
I may decide to form one and if I do, it'll need to have a name.

Other Airsoft groups around the country have an official team or squad and each of those has some sort of military name.
For example, there are several teams here in Iowa.  One team is Bear Cavalry.  Another is Team Wet WorksRedwing Company is another.
Other team names I've found are Eagle Task Force, Gold Squad, etc...  Some others use military letters like Foxtrot Tango.

Can you think of any cool military team names that I could possibly use to create this team?
Any help would be much appreciated!   Smile


I also have another question...

EIA is still in its infancy and I need to settle on a concrete organizational structure for it.
In a nutshell, I organize and host the games.  I also deal with all the advertising and any marketing associated with it.
My friend owns the private land I host these skirmishes on.  In the past, we split any earnings 50/50.
However, he and I tend to disagree over money matters.  He wants to charge more and I do not.  It's a brand new entity and we have to take it slow and easy.  He doesn't see it that way. 
So I suggested an alternative.
I suggested that I lease the field from him for the day at a set price.  After that, it is up to me to make the money back. (break even/make a profit/loss)
In doing so, I can retain my independence and be able to call the shots and organize the games as I see fit.  I do not want this to be a partnership with him.

If you were in my shoes, how would you structure this as an official business or organization?




« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 03:26:02 AM by Ash » Logged
The Burgomaster
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 10:30:13 AM »

I do not want this to be a partnership with him.

If you were in my shoes, how would you structure this as an official business or organization?

There's an old (and often true) business saying: "A partnership is a sinking ship."  I agree with this.  No matter what you do, I hope you have liability insurance for this.  If someone gets injured, it could be a monkey on your back for the rest of your life.
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 01:14:15 PM »


I also have another question...

EIA is still in its infancy and I need to settle on a concrete organizational structure for it.
In a nutshell, I organize and host the games.  I also deal with all the advertising and any marketing associated with it.
My friend owns the private land I host these skirmishes on.  In the past, we split any earnings 50/50.
However, he and I tend to disagree over money matters.  He wants to charge more and I do not.  It's a brand new entity and we have to take it slow and easy.  He doesn't see it that way. 
So I suggested an alternative.
I suggested that I lease the field from him for the day at a set price.  After that, it is up to me to make the money back. (break even/make a profit/loss)
In doing so, I can retain my independence and be able to call the shots and organize the games as I see fit.  I do not want this to be a partnership with him.

If you were in my shoes, how would you structure this as an official business or organization?


Your plan to lease the land is probably a good one.  As far as business organizations go, you have two basic options:

1. Sole proprietorship.  No cost or paperwork to file.  The (huge) downside is you are personally responsible for any liabilities---that means not only lawsuits, the biggest concern, but debts, etc. that the business incurs.  Liability insurance may make this a worthwhile choice, however, if it's a low profit, hobby-style business. You file taxes as an individual using a Schedule C.

2. Official business entity, probably an LLC.  Will cost money to set up and require a decent amount of paperwork.  You will not be responsible for liabilities incurred by the business, if you follow all the rules and procedures (that can be a big "if").  If you don't keep up the paperwork and fees to the state you will lose your protection.  Also, you have to fund the business entity with enough money to meet debts you're reasonably likely to incur (enough to meet your insurance premiums may be enough in this case).

There may be other options.  Truth is, you probably need to see an Iowa lawyer for advice.  A single consultation could be enough to decide whether you would benefit form forming an LLC.  You also might want a professional to draft the lease agreement.  All this can get expensive, but you're taking a huge risk of financial disaster if you try to do it on your own.       

Burgo is right: insurance is a must!  Doing this without insurance would be foolish.  Forming a business entity won't remove the need for insurance.
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 01:52:29 PM »

First thing I would do is contact some of these other Airsoft groups and ask them what they do to defer operating cost. I am sure many will be helpful in assisting you.
If you go with an LLC, you most likely would want to charge a membership fee to reduce cost. Offer small things which would be of interest to your members by joining such as military style patches or hats. These you can buy in bulk.
Charity is a great way to reduce any tax liability you might incour. Find a cause which members of your group would feel comfortable supporting and donate to that. I would suggest a local charity which has a need that your members could agree upon such as a local homeless shelter or children's group. You could easily have an event which would gather visitors and peak intrest in new members by hosting it to donate the money to a charity. The money you spend on the event could be written off on the group's taxes.
Keep receipts for everything the group spends or recives.
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Ash
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 02:49:32 PM »

I was thinking of going the sole proprietorship route because it is a "low profit hobby-style business" right now.  Airsoft is slowly gaining in popularity so there's not a whole lot of money to be made yet. (it's huge in some states, not so huge in others)

Lots of people have mentioned to me that I need to get some form of liability insurance if I do make it an official business.  I probably will, but from what I've heard, liability insurance for extreme sports such as Airsoft can be crazy expensive.
As of right now we have a pretty watertight accident and liability waiver that each person has to sign before they participate in any of our events.  Of course, a court could throw out that waiver if I'm found to be negligent in some way that the waiver didn't cover.  That's why I heavily stress safety at every skirmish I host.
It's not an official business yet and any money we get goes right back into the field or to cover our operating expenses.

Any ideas for cool team names?
No one has mentioned any yet.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 02:52:22 PM by Ash » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 02:59:15 PM »


Lots of people have mentioned to me that I need to get some form of liability insurance if I do make it an official business.  I probably will, but from what I've heard, liability insurance for extreme sports such as Airsoft can be crazy expensive.
As of right now we have a pretty watertight accident and liability waiver that each person has to sign before they participate in any of our events.  Of course, a court could throw out that waiver if I'm found to be negligent in some way that the waiver didn't cover.  That's why I heavily stress safety at every skirmish I host.
It's not an official business yet and any money we get goes right back into the field or to cover our operating expenses.


There's no "probably" here.  You MUST get insurance.  Also, forget about the accident and liability waiver.  Even if it is watertight, someone may sue you and you will need to prove in court that it's watertight.  And the legal fees could be as bad as the damages you may need to pay if you lose the case.  You are taking a big risk here.  Also, you shouldn't feel 100% comfortable if you decide to form an LLC or other business entity.  Years ago the law cut way back on business owners hiding behind their businesses and claiming they were not responsible as individuals for the liabilities of the company.  If someone gets hurt, you will be at risk.  You also need to think about things like fights.  If two people get into a fistfight during one of your events (even if you had nothing to do with it) be prepared for someone to sue you for not having the proper security, first aid kit, or whatever.  In any event BUY INSURANCE OR DON'T DO THIS!

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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 06:05:06 PM »


Lots of people have mentioned to me that I need to get some form of liability insurance if I do make it an official business.  I probably will, but from what I've heard, liability insurance for extreme sports such as Airsoft can be crazy expensive.
As of right now we have a pretty watertight accident and liability waiver that each person has to sign before they participate in any of our events.  Of course, a court could throw out that waiver if I'm found to be negligent in some way that the waiver didn't cover.  That's why I heavily stress safety at every skirmish I host.
It's not an official business yet and any money we get goes right back into the field or to cover our operating expenses.


There's no "probably" here.  You MUST get insurance.  Also, forget about the accident and liability waiver.  Even if it is watertight, someone may sue you and you will need to prove in court that it's watertight.  And the legal fees could be as bad as the damages you may need to pay if you lose the case.  You are taking a big risk here.  Also, you shouldn't feel 100% comfortable if you decide to form an LLC or other business entity.  Years ago the law cut way back on business owners hiding behind their businesses and claiming they were not responsible as individuals for the liabilities of the company.  If someone gets hurt, you will be at risk.  You also need to think about things like fights.  If two people get into a fistfight during one of your events (even if you had nothing to do with it) be prepared for someone to sue you for not having the proper security, first aid kit, or whatever.  In any event BUY INSURANCE OR DON'T DO THIS!


I want to second what Burgo said, but I also want to clarify and expand a little.  "Years ago the law cut way back on business owners hiding behind their businesses and claiming they were not responsible as individuals for the liabilities of the company."  That can indeed be done. it's called "piercing the corporate veil" or sometimes, less precisely, "the alter ego doctrine."  This is why I mentioned that if Ash forms an LLC he will have to observe all the formalities AND properly fund it (that last part is the part people usually forget or ignore).  "Undercapitalization" is one of the primary ways to get the veil pierced.

Furthermore, even if Ash has an LLC that won't stop someone from suing him and trying to pierce the corporate veil, even if they have a poor chance of success, causing him to incur more legal fees. 

From a business standpoint, the main problem here is that this is a high liability activity with a low profit potential.  That's not something many people are going to advise you to get into.  But if you do you need to be protected as well as possible.  Seriously, Ash, a consultation with an Iowa lawyer is the bare minimum investment you need to make.     
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