DRUGS

[Zapranoth]

Flick, your reply is excellent.

My bias (based on no evidence, just what my life experience has been) is such that I cannot stomach decriminalization... Although what you say is true.

I do not have a great alternative, let's be honest.  The addicts I see have many underpinnings to their problems.  It often starts with a disintegrated family unit and a family history that is high risk.  Inadequate and often ineffective social services are applied, and addiction runs its course.   I see a few who recover, and many of those have something to live for.  Many don't have much to live for and they really seem to hit an end stage.

Brutal as it may sound I support the idea of mandating some kind of limit (be it sterilization or a more temporary measure) for addicts who needlessly become pregnant with children they can't care for, and for whom they have no ability to raise in any way except to propagate the curse.  I have this attitude because I am a foster parent for children that the state has taken away from such addicts.

Until we work at the disintegration of social fabric that leads many to use drugs, we will spend exorbitant amounts to poor effect, I believe, either way, just as you say.  But what a problem to try to address!  Few can agree about how to even talk about these kinds of problems.

Pillow, I really don't know what I can kindly say to you, so I am going to say nothing at all.

[Flick James]

It's interesting the straight edge band Good Clean Fun did this song about the "War on drugs"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl-VAh5lKcE

Still I really wonder if the cost might no be too high but then again, maybe it already is...

The cost is high no matter how you cut it. But what irks me is that the prohibition supporters always seems to conveniently ignore that people always seem to get their hands on the drugs, don't they? And so you have the cost of enforcing prohibition combined with the cost of a large number of people still doing drugs regardless. The answer from the prohibition advocates will then be "then we have to crack down harder." This makes a rather huge assumption that we can trust our law enforcement agencies not to be corrupt. If the recent debacle involving the ATF purposely allowing guns to be sold to drug cartels over the border isn't a strong enough indicator of that likelihood, I don't know what is.

[HappyGilmore]

I remember writing a term paper in high school about the legalization and/or decriminalization of drugs. Why, I'm not quite sure. At the time I was fairly straight edge and never touched the stuff but was in favor of it.

As I'm older, not so sure, despite current predicaments.

[Flick James]

Flick, your reply is excellent.

My bias (based on no evidence, just what my life experience has been) is such that I cannot stomach decriminalization... Although what you say is true.

I do not have a great alternative, let's be honest.  The addicts I see have many underpinnings to their problems.  It often starts with a disintegrated family unit and a family history that is high risk.  Inadequate and often ineffective social services are applied, and addiction runs its course.   I see a few who recover, and many of those have something to live for.  Many don't have much to live for and they really seem to hit an end stage.

Brutal as it may sound I support the idea of mandating some kind of limit (be it sterilization or a more temporary measure) for addicts who needlessly become pregnant with children they can't care for, and for whom they have no ability to raise in any way except to propagate the curse.  I have this attitude because I am a foster parent for children that the state has taken away from such addicts.

Until we work at the disintegration of social fabric that leads many to use drugs, we will spend exorbitant amounts to poor effect, I believe, either way, just as you say.  But what a problem to try to address!  Few can agree about how to even talk about these kinds of problems.

Pillow, I really don't know what I can kindly say to you, so I am going to say nothing at all.

I hear you.

However, here is an area where I will actually propose an alternate approach. The problem is with the adoption process in the U.S. There are plenty of people who want to adopt who cannot have children. So why are so many people adopting children from places like Russia and China? The answer is simple, because child protective services doesn't do what it's designed to do. I don't necessarily have a problem with the Pro-Life advocates. I'm conflicted about it myself, but personally I recognize that life begins at the moment of conception.

Be that as it may, you can't be pro-life and not have a way to deal with addicts or anyone who can't care for child having babies. This country makes it so difficult to adopt American children. So instead, people who want to adopt go overseas. We're taking care of the unwanted children from other countries but not taking care of our own. How f***ed up is that? If we can fix that, then it makes it that much easier to just let the addicts do their thing, not give them any help, and let them kill themselves. But no, I don't think the government has any business sterilizing people. I don't care if anybody calls me on Godwin's Law here, but I'll go ahead and say that's the type of thing Nazi Germany did. No thanks.

[HappyGilmore]

Flick, your reply is excellent.

My bias (based on no evidence, just what my life experience has been) is such that I cannot stomach decriminalization... Although what you say is true.

I do not have a great alternative, let's be honest.  The addicts I see have many underpinnings to their problems.  It often starts with a disintegrated family unit and a family history that is high risk.  Inadequate and often ineffective social services are applied, and addiction runs its course.   I see a few who recover, and many of those have something to live for.  Many don't have much to live for and they really seem to hit an end stage.

Brutal as it may sound I support the idea of mandating some kind of limit (be it sterilization or a more temporary measure) for addicts who needlessly become pregnant with children they can't care for, and for whom they have no ability to raise in any way except to propagate the curse.  I have this attitude because I am a foster parent for children that the state has taken away from such addicts.

Until we work at the disintegration of social fabric that leads many to use drugs, we will spend exorbitant amounts to poor effect, I believe, either way, just as you say.  But what a problem to try to address!  Few can agree about how to even talk about these kinds of problems.

Pillow, I really don't know what I can kindly say to you, so I am going to say nothing at all.

I hear you.

However, here is an area where I will actually propose an alternate approach. The problem is with the adoption process in the U.S. There are plenty of people who want to adopt who cannot have children. So why are so many people adopting children from places like Russia and China? The answer is simple, because child protective services doesn't do what it's designed to do. I don't necessarily have a problem with the Pro-Life advocates. I'm conflicted about it myself, but personally I recognize that life begins at the moment of conception.

Be that as it may, you can't be pro-life and not have a way to deal with addicts or anyone who can't care for child having babies. This country makes it so difficult to adopt American children. So instead, people who want to adopt go overseas. We're taking care of the unwanted children from other countries but not taking care of our own. How f***ed up is that? If we can fix that, then it makes it that much easier to just let the addicts do their thing, not give them any help, and let them kill themselves. But no, I don't think the government has any business sterilizing people. I don't care if anybody calls me on Godwin's Law here, but I'll go ahead and say that's the type of thing Nazi Germany did. No thanks.

Hmm.  Agreed, 100%.

[Vik]

So, I asked my friend to get me some shrooms, but apparently it's best to start LSA, which is basically a p***y version of LSD. I'll probably do that first.

[HappyGilmore]

So, I asked my friend to get me some shrooms, but apparently it's best to start LSA, which is basically a p***y version of LSD. I'll probably do that first.

Never tried them.  Don't know if I'd want to either.  Plus, apparently they're really hard to find around here.

[Vik]

So, I asked my friend to get me some shrooms, but apparently it's best to start LSA, which is basically a p***y version of LSD. I'll probably do that first.

Never tried them.  Don't know if I'd want to either.  Plus, apparently they're really hard to find around here.

Just read up on them, they look very unappealing. I don't think I'll be doing them.

[Vik]

Does anyone have a tutorial/recipe on making shroom tea?

[Jim H]

I don't care if anybody calls me on Godwin's Law here, but I'll go ahead and say that's the type of thing Nazi Germany did.

It's the kind of thing America (and much of Europe) did too.  Just feel that shouldn't be forgotten. 

[Rev. Powell]

Does anyone have a tutorial/recipe on making shroom tea?

That request is not appropriate for this forum.  Discussing past personal experiences with illegal drugs is one thing, but I am sure Andrew does not want this forum to be used to help people break the law.

[Vik]

Does anyone have a tutorial/recipe on making shroom tea?

That request is not appropriate for this forum.  Discussing past personal experiences with illegal drugs is one thing, but I am sure Andrew does not want this forum to be used to help people break the law.

I wasn't aware of that that wasn't allowed. Sorry.

[Flick James]

There certainly seems to be a lot of use of pharmaceuticals for behavior modification, depression, and anxiety. I'm not on any meds, but I find it interesting, and sometimes disturbing, that this is so widespread. There was a world that existed before the availability of all of these drugs, and how did they get by? This is not a criticism, really. More of a curiosity. There's a part of me that wonders why there is so much of it. I mean, what is ratio of internal and external factors that are making life such that pharmaceutical use to deal with it is so common? There almost seems to be a societal dependency.

My personal opinion is that, if one is an adult, then one can make one's own decisions, and so be it. However, I don't like it that parents are putting their kids on drugs to manage anxiety, depression, and behavioral problems. This bothers me a great deal. I'm not saying that it's never necessary, but it seems to me that meds should be the last option for kids. Kids are not yet fully developed, and they certainly are not legal adults to make their own decisions. It seems a travesty to me for parents to jump onto the drug band wagon to deal with a difficult child.

My oldest son is very spirited. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would say he's about an 8 or a 9. Our pediatrician said he MAY have a mild emotional disability, but it's difficult to tell, and he may just grow out of it, and we need to make good decisions as parents, let the meltdowns happen, and not be so quick to appease him to prevent one. In other words, she said he is so smart that he is manipulating us to some degree. She said that it is extremely rare for a 3 1/2 year old to negotiate, yet he does. He negotiates all the time. So here we have a child who is very challenging, and it is draining to let the meltdowns happen, but his behavior is slowly improving. What upsets me is that many parents would resort to drugs to deal with this problem. The school systems also support this. Teachers don't want to deal with a difficult child, and in some ways I don't blame them, but a child's parents are their only real advocate, and they need to exercise their rights and be parents, and work with the teachers to find a solution and insist that their child stay off drugs if that is in the child's best interests.

That's my opinion. There may be those that disagree with me. My thoughts are, once one becomes of legal age to make all of their own decisions, and they want to go on meds, then that's their choice. If a parent decides to put their child on meds, I think it's extremely important to weigh the pros and cons, and seriously consider whether or not it is necessary. If the decision is based on the child's health, if the child is a danger to him/herself or others, then I understand that. But if a parent is making this decision just to make life easier for themselves, that drives me up the wall. You are a parent. Deal with it. How many kids are growing up having a dependency that they didn't need to have, because their parents were inconvenienced by their "childish" behavior?

I'm sorry. I've had quite a rant here. I'm a bit on edge this week. It will pass. I know there are members here who have stated they use various drugs for these reasons. I'm not judging. Yes, I do feel that pharmaceutical use is too prevalent, and I also believe that the pharma industry stands to gain a lot by a societal dependency on what they offer, so I always wonder how much that plays into such widespread use.

So endeth the rant.

[JaseSF]

I think you've added some good points there Flick. Also I know a lot of anti-depressant drugs are not recommended for young people and can make their depression and suicidal thoughts even worse if taken.

[HappyGilmore]

I've got some anxiety issues of my own, and I've taken xanax for them.  However, due to my own issues with that particular drug, I've since stopped as I tend to over-take them.  They're somewhat needed in my case, but I tend to avoid them if necessary and only take them when I know I'm gonna have some sort of anxiety issue (usually when on vacation or at a funeral, as big crowds get to me.)

I agree with Flick a lot, in that teachers/parents/whomever seem to overly medicate kids these days.  One could say the pharmaceutical companies have a lot to do with that, pushing doctors to dish out meds so they can take a profit, and they nowadays have medications for EVERYTHING.  Reminds me of that Chris Rock routine about it: "Are ya happy? Are ya sad? Are ya tired? Are ya hyper? Can you poop? Can ya pee? Can't poop? Can't pee? Take this pill, it does it all!".

On a side note, I fell hard off the wagon hard this weekend and almost ended up in a hospital around 6:00 AM Saturday morning.  So, we'll see what happens.