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Author Topic: 7th anniversary of Iraq War passes, little noticed  (Read 1326 times)
Allhallowsday
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« on: March 19, 2010, 10:59:44 PM »

7th anniversary of Iraq War passes, little noticed 
RALEIGH, N.C. – It was a day like any other day — except that it was the seventh anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. And, for the most part, that was forgotten.

"Honestly, with everything that's going on in my personal life, it slipped my mind," said Chris Skidmore, 39, as he sipped a drink on the artificial lawn at Raleigh's North Hills Mall. "I've been out of work since August of last year."

It's not that the average American isn't aware that we still have tens of thousands or troops in Iraq, or that nearly 4,400 U.S. military personnel have died there since the war began. Scattered demonstrations were scheduled around the country to call for the troops' swift return.

But with so much else going on — a torpid economy, a climactic debate over health care reform, a mounting conflict in Afghanistan — it's easy to lose sight of the fact that Americans are still fighting and dying in Iraq... 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100320/ap_on_re_us/us_iraq_anniversary 
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2010, 11:24:30 PM »

God bless every one of those brave young men and women who served, and the families of those who died.  We may have differing opinions on the worthiness of the cause, but we can all salute their bravery and devotion to our country. Cheers
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2010, 10:04:24 AM »

I know it's going on.Tara's son Mike was there.So was Jim. And her daughter Angel is in boot camp.  Bluesad
A piece of s**t war for oil rights. FOR OIL. No? Where were we when Bosnia was 'ethnic cleansing' genocide? Or Rawanda? World police? BULLSH!T! It's all about money and power. Sure-Saddam was a scumbag-but he didn't do what we didn't do first. We killed the american Indians-and stuck them in concentration camps...along with japenese americans during WWII....and remember slavery ? We hide it better now....murder is murder. Hide it behind patriotism all you want. DEAD IS DEAD! Women and children-not soldiers-DIE-and there is so much killing going on....ugh.....I dunno..... Bluesad
Jim told me his job-his ORDERS-were to kick in doors and open fire. He eventually got arrested-because he refused to do it anymore. f**k this war. f**k all war.
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2010, 12:25:22 PM »

I respect your passion, RC, while disagreeing with some of your opinions.  But, that being said, wars in general bring out the worst in humanity.
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3mnkids
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2010, 10:51:18 PM »

So much for "Mission Accomplished", huh?
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2010, 11:33:28 AM »

I applaud you RC. Why hide the truth?
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indianasmith
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2010, 11:55:15 AM »

That is because truth is a very complex thing.  Wars are horrendous, but at the same time, I do believe there are some wars that have to be fought, because the alternative is unthinkable.  And moral equivalency is not as simple and direct as pacifists would always have you believe.  I debated hard and long over whether to post this or not.  I know my friend RC will disagree with much of it.  But I feel it needs to be said.

FACTS:   Saddam Hussein launched two wars of aggression against neighboring states.  He also used chemical weapons on both the Iranians and on Iraq's own Kurdish citizens.  WHile ONE part of the war in Iraq was about stabilizing a significant chunk of the world's oil supply (not siezing it for our own use, or turning it over to Haliburton,  but simply making sure that it was in the hands of a stable govenment), there were lots of other factors involved in the decision - most notably the great fear that this America-hating dictator who had a track record of manufacturing and USING WMD against those he hated, would find a way to use them against us.  Would Saddam have ever attacked the U.S. directly?  Probably not.  But would he have handed to someone else - bin Laden, for example, or perhaps Hizbollah - a bucket of Anthrax, or maybe a few shells loaded with Sarin gas, to be smuggled into America and set off in Times Square?  Quite likely.  Add to that mix the fact that Saddam had signed an armistice, after invading Kuwait and being defeated in 1991, which he had then violated EVERY SINGLE provsision of, and the fact that he had hired assassins to kill a former U.S. President in 1993, and you have multiple, legitimate reasons for this country going to war against him.

  This is not a popular point of view, I know, but I maintained at the time and maintain to this day that the war in Iraq was a legitimate, just, and legal war, and that the world is better off because we fought it and won it.  And it was WON - even Newsweek is belatedly giving Bush the credit for that.  My hat is off to everyone who served, and is still serving, in the Middle East.  Bless'em all!
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"Carpe Ngo Diem!" - Seize the South Vietnamese Dictator!
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2010, 12:18:14 PM »

Why did we not stop the genocide in Bosnia? Or Rawanda. Gee-no oil fields,mebbe?
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2010, 05:39:25 PM »

And let's not forget we, or I should say Bush Baby, was shipping arms to Bin Laden and his supporters within the year of the 911 attacks. Sure, we were doing under the guise of him opposing the religious oppression and similar factions, but we were basically funding the guy to turn around and slap us in the face.

And to be honest, I tend to think Bin Laden is dead. No new tapes or videos in a VERY long time, but the question is who is keeping his death covered up?  Us or them? I work for the government, and I don't trust them. Never have and never will. They shouldn't involve people who just want to live their lives and have kids and go about their own business if the government is wanting to establish markers in other countries.

We should ask governments if they want to be part of the firewall. If they do, the minute they are attacked in any way, we respond with instant and deadly force. Otherwise, we should not involve ourselves in other countries politics. The concept of we need to stop them before they are a threat makes as much sense as saying we should kill anyone who has ever had a history of cancer in their family to stop the genetic potential of cancer re-surfacing. It is the same ideal.

I talk to veterans every day. I love these people, except for the ones who dug latrines in Idaho for three weeks and then claimed an injury so they could get out and be babied by the governement for the rest of their lives. These people in combat do things no normal person would do, whether it is because they are following orders or because they feel they are doing the right thing to protect their country and/or their loved ones. Either way, they have my love and support, but the people pulling the strings behind all this are playing a game that we quite honestly are not given the full story behind. That is not paranoia. We are still having things about the Vietnam War surface that the American public had no idea about. And technology is better at covering up things now, so we may never understand the full range of crap that is going on.

RC may be somewhat over-simplying things, but he is basically right. No war that we have involved ourselves in the last 40 years or so have been for much other than political standing or resource security. The USA uses more natural resources than ANY other country. Isn't it time we learned other ways to support ourselves and let the rest of the world slaughter itself? Then, if they cross a set line, we show no mercy.

Ah, what do I care? Give me my paycheck and my PS3 and I'm good for now. Have a nice chat.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2010, 06:07:27 PM »

   No U.S. money went directly to bin Laden, EVER.  That is a myth.  During the 1980's, when the Mujahadeen rebels were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, we funded that insurgency in order to KEEP Russia out of the Middle East. Bin Laden was part of that movement, but no U.S. funds ever went to him directly. The basic point is, that although both sides did some dishonorable things, America was on the side of right in the Cold War, and we were within our national interests to keep the Soviet Empire (which, incidentally, murdered over 50 million of its OWN citizens during its 70 year existence -  100 times more than died in America's three centuries of war with its Native population!) out of that region.
  And, RC, we DID go to war to stop the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia.  Not as soon or as effectively as we should have, perhaps, but we did try.  That's why the Serbian leadership is now on trial for war crimes.  As for Africa - there was no strategic interest there, and no guarantee that any intervention would do any good.  We stuck our nose into Somalia, and you see what good that did us and them!  Much of the continent of Africa is still ruled by barbaric savages who sieze any chance to slaughter one another, and no outside intervention seems to do anything but make things worse.
  I doubt bin Laden is dead, however.  He issued an audiotape early last year, after the 2008 election and Obama's taking office, and continues to lead from the shadows.  I pray for the day the Marines find him. 

RC, if you missed it, I did agree with you that stabilizing the world's oil supply is PART of the reason we are active in the Middle East.  But my whole point was that it is not the ONLY reason, and that some of the reasons for invading Iraq were, in fact, good and jsut reasons.

And, Java, you are right about our use of resources.  We constitute 5% of the world's population, and use 20% of its energy.  But, you have to balance that against the fact that we grow some 40% of the world's food and are responsible for most of its medical and technological advances in the last 100 years or so.  The world is a better place because the United States exists, and the world is safest when America is strongest.  What other nation saved the world from fascist domination TWICE in one century?  I don't always trust our government - particularly this administration -but I always have and always will love my country, and I get sick of people who trash it at every opportunity, parcicularly when they skew the truth to do so.
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 02:33:04 PM »

One thing that is worth mentioning...  Stabilizing the world's supply of oil is not an ignoble goal.  If it became too expensive or fluctuated too much abruptly, consequences for everyone could be disastrous.  Large scale warfare is one possibility, not to mention the possibility of a global famine.

If you were trapped in the desert for a few days without water, wouldn't you use violence against someone who tried to stop you from gaining access to an oasis?  That's pretty much the situation we're in with oil.  You might argue the middle east, or Iraq in particular, isn't a big enough chunk to cause such a situation if it withheld oil (it didn't in the 70s), but it's worth remembering. 
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2010, 04:55:24 PM »

   No U.S. money went directly to bin Laden, EVER.  That is a myth. 

And I never said money. Arms were shipped. Anything you do to help conflict is funding it in my book. Simplistic, sure, but if you don't feed something, it dies. Sure, they would have found another source. There is always another source in this world. Someone is always looking to profit from death.

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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 06:31:40 PM »

In the context of the Cold War, arming the mujahadeen made sense.  It helped bring about the collapse of the Soviet Union, and goodness knows the world is better off without the most murderous regime in history.


But then the law of unintended consequences kicked in . . . 
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"Carpe diem!" - Seize the day!  "Carpe per diem!" - Seize the daily living allowance! "Carpe carp!" - Seize the fish!
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 07:14:48 PM »

But then the law of unintended consequences kicked in . . . 

As long as we always have that to count on, I'm guessing Jay Leno will never run out of things to crack wise about, huh?
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indianasmith
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 10:53:10 PM »

Very true!
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"Carpe Ngo Diem!" - Seize the South Vietnamese Dictator!
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