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March 28, 2024, 09:09:46 AM
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Author Topic: Swat Raid video  (Read 2838 times)
trekgeezer
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« on: May 07, 2010, 07:58:44 AM »

It's amazing that this continues to happen in this country and apparently is getting worse.


http://themoderatevoice.com/71330/video-of-swat-raid-on-missouri-family/


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Flick James
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 11:41:48 AM »

The "war on drugs" is how the U.S.A. funds alot of it's covert activities. I was reading somewhere that prior to the current war in Afghanistan, that poppy cultivation, which goes into heroin production, was almost non-existent, but now there are poppy fields everywhere, and a recent story on Fox News uncovered that there are U.S. forces protecting these operations. This did not come from an underground news source, this was on Fox News, very mainstream media. I've gone beyond questioning my government to the point that I outright cannot trust them.
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Jim H
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 07:10:51 PM »

As unfortunate as it is for the officers involved, a justifiable response to poorly announced smash door entries like this is volleys of lead.  It has happened before.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95475&page=1
http://wcco.com/local/iteam.police.raid.2.652690.html

This sort of incident, where they shoot dogs when they enter a house, is also apparently fairly common. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/04/AR2008090402746.html?hpid=topnews

It might be worth mentioning here that police forces firing on a dog was what led (well, depending on who you asked) to what was ruled a justifiable homicide of Marshal Degan at Ruby Ridge. 

Raids like this should only be used as a last resort, or for known violent offenders.  Certainly not for most drug offenses.  The justification that they did the raid at night because they thought they'd destroy evidence smacks as particularly ridiculous.  Seriously, you think a six hour difference is enough to destroy some massive drug lab?  And even if they did destroy the drugs - isn't that what they want anyway?
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Rev. Powell
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010, 09:22:54 PM »

Wow, that makes my blood boil.  Shooting the family dog.  (Almost as bad, to me, was the policeman probing to see if he could continue asking questions after the guy asked for a lawyer).   

Back in the 1980s everyone seemed to ignore this kind of thing in the rush to show "zero tolerance."  Over time more and more of these stories have piled up, and there's still been no public outcry against these disproportionate tactics.  Obviously you should approach a meth lab (which is a public health hazard) differently than you should a family home with marijuana plants where there are children present.
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ulthar
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 10:13:18 PM »

Aw, c'mon guys...where's your sense of social responsibility.  We HAVE to get rid of the drugs.  Haven't we all be brainwashed taught that NO cost is too high?

Okay, on a more serious note, why should the 4th be immune to all the other attacks on the Bill of Rights.  The 10th is certainly dead.


there's still been no public outcry against these disproportionate tactics.


I think it was early-90's or so (but my memory could be a bit fuzzy) that there was a rash of these kinds of home invasions.  One that I recall specifically was a family getting no-knock-warranted and either a family member or a police officer was shot and killed (or maybe both?).  Anyway, the cops had the wrong house.

As an ex-law enforcement officer, I can say that I have always believed the no-knock warrant to be a BAD idea.  MAYBE in certain cases you can make the argument it is necessary, but the potential for abuse is VERY high.  Part of my job entailed working very closely with the narcotics team and I could tell some stories...but I won't here.  Let's just say my "unethical" and "corruption" meters were often in the red and pegged more than once.

Having been on the inside of this, I can attest that Flick James has hit the nail on the head.  Drug Law "Enforcement" has become a MAJOR cash cow, even down to the local level.  Between the asset seizure laws of the 80's and the no-knock warrants, a more open invitation to corruption could not have been devised.
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Jim H
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 10:32:50 PM »

There are several cases of both officers and civilians being shot and injured/killed.  Sometimes the police were right at the right house, but there are even cases where they hit the wrong house.

Cory Maye is one of the best examples.  He was in a duplex, cops busted in the other half of it.  This was in a bad neighborhood, and Maye had an infant daughter in the room next to the door connecting the two halves.  So Maye, when he heard the noises of people smashing into his neighbors home around midnight, loaded his gun.  When a police officer broke in the door and moved into his bedroom, he shot and killed him.  Maye got the death penalty, though it got switched to life eventually.  He's still in prison. 

As it turned out, the police mistakenly believed they had the right to come into his house, as they thought it was part of same residency as the first part of their raid.  Which it wasn't. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Maye
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ulthar
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 10:54:58 PM »


Cory Maye is one of the best examples. 


Sad thing is that that the example you gave is NOT the same specific example I remember reading about at the time.
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El Misfit
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 11:29:11 PM »

my God, these Cops believe that the law is to kill. YOU'RE BREAKING LAWS YOU BASTARDS, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT AND SERVE, NOT KILL AND SLAUGHTER!
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Rev. Powell
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2010, 01:57:44 PM »


Having been on the inside of this, I can attest that Flick James has hit the nail on the head.  Drug Law "Enforcement" has become a MAJOR cash cow, even down to the local level.  Between the asset seizure laws of the 80's and the no-knock warrants, a more open invitation to corruption could not have been devised.

That's a great point.  The asset forfeiture laws are inherently unfair.  First, they allow the police to assess a punishment (seizing your stuff) without convicting you of a crime.  Second, giving the police a profit motive to enforce the law opens the door to corruption.
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Jim H
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2010, 12:35:50 AM »


Having been on the inside of this, I can attest that Flick James has hit the nail on the head.  Drug Law "Enforcement" has become a MAJOR cash cow, even down to the local level.  Between the asset seizure laws of the 80's and the no-knock warrants, a more open invitation to corruption could not have been devised.

That's a great point.  The asset forfeiture laws are inherently unfair.  First, they allow the police to assess a punishment (seizing your stuff) without convicting you of a crime.  Second, giving the police a profit motive to enforce the law opens the door to corruption.

Yeah, not to mention they also often destroy objects ridiculously quickly that aren't worth money to them, even if you didn't commit a crime, but just didn't reclaim it quick enough.  I had a few friends in Michigan who had airsoft guns seized by police who were basically being douchebags (nothing illegal was done by my friends, just a neighbor mistook the guns as real ones).  They managed to get their guns back, but barely - if they'd come a couple days later, their guns (total value of all the guns combined exceeded $2,000) would have been destroyed by the police. 

Likewise, there are a number of cases of large amounts of cash being seized unjustly, and the police are notorious for refusing to give it back. 

One of the major casualties of the drug war and increasingly draconian police powers is rapidly disintegrating trust in the police (which, of course, has been disintegrating for a lot longer than the modern drug war, but it certainly isn't helping).  When certain police members can essentially steal from the public at will and rarely face punishment, how are we supposed to view them in a favorable light?
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Flick James
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 11:25:47 AM »

I agree with everything said so far. Erosion of trust in the government and in our police is certainly one of the many casualties. Police are like a guard dog. You want them to be vigilant, you want them to want to do anything they can, you want them to be dangerous. But, like a guard dog, you have to put them on a leash. The leash is supposed to be the constitution. I'm in Arizona, where the SB1070 law is the hot topic across the nation. Someone was saying that the law enforcement unions were in favor of the bill, as if that were an argument in favor of it. Of course the police are in favor of the law, they're going to be in favor of anything that gives them more power. Big surprise there. That's not a valid argument.
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