Some actual FACTS about the weekend Israeli assault

[dean]

I don't know all the details of the actual incident, I don't know who does. I just can't imagine there weren't alternatives to shooting and killing so many people aboard a vessel carrying aid. I don't care who's spin I'm falling for, it's just not decent.

That's pretty much where I sit: both sides are heavily invested in making the other look bad, so it's hard to get a decent story without at least some spin one way or another, but regardless, such a violent response seems not decent at all.

I just read an interesting article which after a quick search I cannot find [how convenient!] which was basically from one of the Australian journalists who accompanied the flotilla.  It was quite fascinating actually... I'll try and search it out, but for the life of me it seems to have vanished! [wait no I have found it!]

http://www.theage.com.au/world/in-their-wake-20100604-xkww.html


I found the article to be quite engaging.

Of particular note was the journalist talking about how the palestinian members of the flotilla were treated in comparison to the westerners.  In a word, poorly, and highlights what Trekgeezer mentioned about how whilst there are plenty of Palestinian's who hate the Israeli's, the feeling is quite mutual.

It also strikes me as somewhat amusing that for all it's downsides, HAMAS was elected in through a democratic process, so that should at least count for something; it seems alot of people in Gaza are being punished for that.  The fact that some groups are annoyed by the election result kind of make me wonder if those who spout rhetoric about the democratic process just like the process and not the result. [yes I know I'm oversimplifying and I'm not talking about those who don't like HAMAS for other perfectly reasonable reasons]...


In any case I'm glad the Irish boat was boarded with little trouble.

[lester1/2jr]

Of particular note was the journalist talking about how the palestinian members of the flotilla were treated in comparison to the westerners.  In a word, poorly

they do not seperate politics and personal feelings from doing their duty, whatever it may be over there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaCinq8swc4
	Small | Large

also just fyi here are some of my thuoghts on the wider implications of this  Iwrote for a different forum:


I saw a good discussion on MSNBC with former CIA guy Bob Baer and another guy. two good points made


1. alot of peole did not realize there was a blockade of gaza at all. now they are aware of it

2. as usual Iran is benefiting from this. Turkey was Israels only nominal ally in the region. Obviously, killing some of their citizens is not going to make that shaky bond stronger. Turkey has been working with Iran involving Irans nuclear program and now they will likely pursue more of that sort of thing as iran has not recently murdered any turkish aid workers.

I would add these two things to what those guys said

1. Turkey is more western and secular than alot of muslm countries but some of it, especially on the political side, is superficial and meant to help Turkys prospective entry into the EU. the EU is in pretty bad shape now, there may not be anything for Turkey to join and then what incentive do they have for even pretending to be part of the democratization brigade?. oh and

4. iran sold a ton of euros and bought gold and dollars instead. central banks doing stuff like that doesn't tend to help the currency very much. quite the contrary. The EU crashing would be a great boon to Iran and they have the power with moves like that to help push it along its way.

so, alot of things not going on not in plain sight on this one.

[BTM]

Of particular note was the journalist talking about how the palestinian members of the flotilla were treated in comparison to the westerners.  In a word, poorly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaCinq8swc4

You know, this sucks.  This really, really, sucks, it's a horrible story BUT heres the thing, when you're dealing with an enemy who, in the past, has shown NO compunctions about using women and children to blow things up, and people have hidden bombs on their OWN bodies, how do you combat something like that?  Do you NOT search people?  Do you take the risk the person you let through has a weapon on them and a belief that God will reward them for killing people?

Dunno.. it's a sucky situation all around.  Maybe after both sides kill enough of each other they'll stop and say, "You know, this is kind of dumb, we should try something else..