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Author Topic: You Know What Really Grinds My Gears?  (Read 124772 times)
The Gravekeeper
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« Reply #375 on: September 04, 2010, 12:59:16 PM »

People with serious cases of confirmation bias, especially when it concerns racism and/or sexism. You can't convince these people that equality is a good thing that won't take away everything they have; they're not joining/starting conversation to learn or have a debate. They're just loudly stating their unmoving opinion and will (in their mind, anyway) "shoot down" everyone who disagrees with them in the slightest with what they believe are valid arguments (a number of which have long since been disproven by scientific findings, logical thought or just plain common sense).

Again, there is no convincing them to at least consider that they may not be right; they're not open to other opinions at all.
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« Reply #376 on: September 04, 2010, 01:04:30 PM »


Agreed, but what's even more grinding are the pretentious schmucks who style themselves "graffiti artists" and act like their doing a public service by bringing "culture" to the streets.  If anyone actually wanted to see their art they could open a gallery, not inflict themselves on the public.


You can extend that to just about any 'public' art, such as the (often VERY abstract) sculptures that adorn many a street corner in the US and are paid for via public dollars.

I'm not anti-art at all, but I do believe art is very personal and very subjective.  I don't see the benefit of spending what is quite often a VERY large sum of money for one-off sculptures that simply do NOT fit the taste of the community; what's 'trendy' in some urban areas is not necessarily a good 'fit' for other locales.

It also seems to me that VERY few people seem to appreciate such public 'art' and thus one could argue it is a waste of public money to create and display it.  

(Aside from a "Gears" rant: I wonder if this sort of public subsidy of 'art' drives up the price.  I once contacted a sculptor to make a very personalized piece for my wife as a gift...his quote was so far beyond what I, or pretty much any middle class person, could pay that I was dumbfounded.  IIRC, it was 5 figures or very close to it for something the size of a paperweight for a shelf in her work office).
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The Gravekeeper
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« Reply #377 on: September 04, 2010, 01:22:12 PM »


Agreed, but what's even more grinding are the pretentious schmucks who style themselves "graffiti artists" and act like their doing a public service by bringing "culture" to the streets.  If anyone actually wanted to see their art they could open a gallery, not inflict themselves on the public.


You can extend that to just about any 'public' art, such as the (often VERY abstract) sculptures that adorn many a street corner in the US and are paid for via public dollars.

I'm not anti-art at all, but I do believe art is very personal and very subjective.  I don't see the benefit of spending what is quite often a VERY large sum of money for one-off sculptures that simply do NOT fit the taste of the community; what's 'trendy' in some urban areas is not necessarily a good 'fit' for other locales.

It also seems to me that VERY few people seem to appreciate such public 'art' and thus one could argue it is a waste of public money to create and display it.  

(Aside from a "Gears" rant: I wonder if this sort of public subsidy of 'art' drives up the price.  I once contacted a sculptor to make a very personalized piece for my wife as a gift...his quote was so far beyond what I, or pretty much any middle class person, could pay that I was dumbfounded.  IIRC, it was 5 figures or very close to it for something the size of a paperweight for a shelf in her work office).

This actually came up in my museum studies class. I understand that your average joe doesn't particularly care for art and thus doesn't particularly care for public art. The irony is that the point of public art is to make art more accessible to the average person by trying to show them that it doesn't have to be a bunch of dusty old paintings and sculptures that you'd need a degree to understand in a gallery full of snobs. In my experience, open air public exhibitions seem to work better because while it's right out there in the open where people walking by can see it, they're not permanent. I have seen a few cases where public statues were very popular; these cases never involved abstract art.

As for art being expensive, the price varies from artist to artist and depends largely on how much of a name they've made for themselves. If you commission a well-known artist (in the art community, at least), then yes, it will be expensive. They're used to being commissioned by the upper-middle class (or just plain upper-class) as well as government institutions. If you commissioned someone who's still new to the art world, then they'll probably just charge for the cost of materials (you've gotta cover that no matter what) as well as something close to minimum wage for every hour they put into the piece (it is a job, after all, and these people are trying to feed themselves and pay their rent with it). Of course, if you get someone less experienced then there's a good chance that it won't look as nice as it would if the experienced artist made it.
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« Reply #378 on: September 04, 2010, 01:43:07 PM »

I don't know man, I've seen some "art" I swear a monkey did. 
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« Reply #379 on: September 04, 2010, 02:09:27 PM »

I don't know man, I've seen some "art" I swear a monkey did. 

After spending some time with people in the art world, I think I've learned something: you can get away with calling just about anything "art" as long as you can come up with at least 3 pages of BS that sound good. It makes it look like you put a lot of thought into it and are a deep, insightful soul when really all you did was nail the receipt to the two-by-four you bought from a local hardware store. Alternatively, you can be genuinely deep and insightful or just have really good technical skills (the latter is a necessity for commerical art, while the other two aren't.)
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WingedSerpent
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« Reply #380 on: September 04, 2010, 02:29:23 PM »

This one is kind of petty, I know but it really irks me.  Especially lately, because I'm trying to really upgrade some of my skill. 

Tutorials that have you do one things only to say "now delete the part you just did, in order for us to show you this next part"

I was working on a DreamWeaver tutorial last night and ran into this.  same with an InDesign book I bought.  I know its' to show you that there are several ways of doing the samething in the program, but it really makes me feel like the work I just did was a waste of time.
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Just Another Guy
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« Reply #381 on: September 04, 2010, 03:20:54 PM »

I don't know man, I've seen some "art" I swear a monkey did. 
Ever watch the movie Dr. Terror's House of Horrors?  There's a nice part where Christopher Lee plays a noted art critic that goes on about how great a painting is and how much effort, knowledge, and style the artist must have put into it, only for them to reveal that the artist was a monkey.  Then everybody laughs at him.  (Lee, not the monkey.)
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Jim H
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« Reply #382 on: September 04, 2010, 03:37:14 PM »

Quote
(Aside from a "Gears" rant: I wonder if this sort of public subsidy of 'art' drives up the price.  I once contacted a sculptor to make a very personalized piece for my wife as a gift...his quote was so far beyond what I, or pretty much any middle class person, could pay that I was dumbfounded.  IIRC, it was 5 figures or very close to it for something the size of a paperweight for a shelf in her work office).


Speaking from some art friends I know, if you get ones that are not established, they often make next to nothing.  Often, if you calculate hourly rates, they're working for $2-$3 an hour, no joke - I've seen commissioned oil paintings done for like $100, when the materials alone are probably $40-50.  But then there are ones that are usually easier to find on the opposite end of the spectrum.  

And on another note, I agree with you about public art done on public funds.  I don't have a problem with them spending public money, and I don't even have a problem with it being used to make something not directly to public taste, but most of the ones I've seen are simply garbage.  But, I'm pretty down on modern art in general, and a good chunk of abstract art as well.

Quote
Ever watch the movie Dr. Terror's House of Horrors?  There's a nice part where Christopher Lee plays a noted art critic that goes on about how great a painting is and how much effort, knowledge, and style the artist must have put into it, only for them to reveal that the artist was a monkey.  Then everybody laughs at him.


This is a true story.  The story makes me happy.  Also, I don't recall if this is the case in the movie, but it was a chimp.  Only everyone calls chimps monkeys for some reason.  FYI, they aren't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Brassau

Art critics are often full of ****.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_van_Meegeren

I like his story too.   TeddyR
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 03:40:14 PM by Jim H » Logged
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« Reply #383 on: September 04, 2010, 04:51:29 PM »

Quote
Only everyone calls chimps monkeys for some reason.  FYI, they aren't.
I know, but it just sounds funnier. 

You see, everything is funnier with a monkey.  Those are words I live by.  Chimps on the other hand are just mildly amusing.  ... unless you call them monkeys. 


Also, it makes me really happy to learn that's a true story.
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« Reply #384 on: September 04, 2010, 11:56:00 PM »

Monkeys are funny.  Nostrils are funny.


Monkey nostrils . . . they're freaking HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BounceGiggle BounceGiggle BounceGiggle
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« Reply #385 on: September 05, 2010, 02:15:01 AM »

After spending some time with people in the art world, I think I've learned something: you can get away with calling just about anything "art" as long as you can come up with at least 3 pages of BS that sound good. It makes it look like you put a lot of thought into it and are a deep, insightful soul when really all you did was nail the receipt to the two-by-four you bought from a local hardware store. Alternatively, you can be genuinely deep and insightful or just have really good technical skills (the latter is a necessity for commerical art, while the other two aren't.)

You know, I took an art appreciation course in college, and I remember reading in the textbook that was assigned to class (can't recall the title, but i could probably look it up if anyone's interested) about this one artist who put a urinal in a museum piece.  The book explained how the urinal was now NOT just a urinal but a piece of art because it had been taken from it's regular environment and put in a museum or some such.

I really can't help but think, "Bulls**t!" when I hear stuff like that.  I mean, to me, art requires just a little bit more creatively than just yanking a random item from some place and saying, "Ha, ha this is art now!"  

I mean, if he had turned the urinal on it's side, added sticks and cloth for masts and sails and called it the S.S. Goflow, then yeah I could see that being called art, but come on.  

And for the record, I really hope that when I hear about artists doing crazy junk like this that they at least have had several dozen (or hopefully even hundreds) of other "normal" pieces that they made first to build up some kind of credibility and then tried this as an experiment, rather than just becoming famous with one lame ass piece, especially since I know a lot of REALLY talented people in various fields for are doing REAL works of art and aren't making a hell of a lot for it.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 11:04:40 AM by BTM » Logged

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Jim H
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« Reply #386 on: September 05, 2010, 02:53:59 AM »

Quote
And for the record, I really hope that when I hear about artists doing crazy junk like this that they at least have had several dozen (or hopefully even hundreds) of other "normal" pieces that they made first to build up some kind credibility then tried this as an experiment, rather than just becoming famous with one lame ass piece, especially since I know a lot of REALLY talented people in various fields for are doing REAL works of art and aren't making a hell of a lot for it.

It depends.  There are artists who do crazy crap later on, but are actually very skilled - they know the "rules" in order to properly break them.  Picasso is a good example - his early realism stuff is extremely good.  Then there are those who do modern art type junk because they basically can't do anything else. 

Personally, I think art has to communicate some idea or intent to be good art.  If it's impossible to understand without elaborate explanation, best case scenario it's bad art, worst case it isn't art at all.
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« Reply #387 on: September 05, 2010, 06:21:01 AM »

People who loiter whether it be on foot, skateboard, bike, whatever.   It drives me nuts when I walk out work to find skateboarders jumping off the stairs or riding the railings.   Not only are they putting themselves at risk but our customers walking by as well.  I'm a big stickler on the abuse of private property as you can tell. 

And I firmly believe you should by law be able to lethally shoot people who tresspass on your private property.  Or at least after a few warnings.  We have an issue with people cutting through our yard. 
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AndyC
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« Reply #388 on: September 05, 2010, 12:13:40 PM »

Public art. That's one that gets me. Where I used to live, there must have been a policy that no public sculpture was allowed to look like anything. Some of them I passed by for years and never noticed, they were so bland, while others looked more like somebody at the library missed the garbage truck. Abstract doesn't bother me, but there's no craftmanship in these things either. If all you want to do is weld chunks of metal together, at least do the welding right. Part of it, I think, is that the people who get on committees to decide these things fancy themselves sophisticated patrons of the arts, but also need to avoid offending anyone in a public place, so most of the art just ends up looking totally meaningless. It's like the s**tty framed posters in your doctor's waiting room, but less pretty and far more pretentious.

There was a guy from my hometown, went to the same schools, who went on to become a very successful sculptor. A lot of his work is religious or large-scale memorial-type sculptures, and his figures are stylized but realistic. He made an excellent point about abstract art. He said too many people are making abstract art who lack the ability to make something realistic. People go straight into abstract art without even learning the fundamentals of painting, drawing or sculpting. His feeling was if you can't make something as simple and concrete as a realistic human hand, you shouldn't be trying to give form to something as difficult to grasp as an abstract idea. I thought that summed it up pretty well.

Funny story. Back in the 90s, mainly as a publicity stunt, he declared war on crappy public art, with the main thrust being against a giant fibreglass intestine that had sat in front of the provincial courthouse in one of our nearest cities since the 70s, when somebody paid $25,000 for it. Wasn't a good example of fibreglass work, much less art - I always thought the seams were sloppy. Anyway, he got into the papers with his attack on "Aporia" (I didn't even know the thing had a name until this happened), calling it a giant turd and trying to stir up public support for replacing it with one of his pieces. The slogan was "Flush the turd. It's time to be heard." Honestly, he and his business manager were having a blast.

I went out to cover the anti-Aporia rally he'd planned at the courthouse. Three people showed up - to defend the turd. Tim got as much of a laugh out of it as anybody, and he told me that if local people didn't care that much about art, he wasn't going to waste his time when he had a bunch of work to do for people who wanted his work.

Here's Aporia:


And a miniature of Tim's proposed replacement, "Millennium." Much more inspiring, and even the three people with the "we support aporia" placards loved it when they saw a picture. Note that it is an abstract sculpture depicting the triumph of the human spirit, and yet he can clearly sculpt a realistic hand.  TeddyR


The interesting thing is that the city fire department got together with him years later and raised funds for a firefighters' memorial that is within sight of the turd. Totally a coincidence. It's just the part of town where the art gallery and all the government buildings are. He also did a Canadian veterans' memorial in the area, again with the help of fundraising, so he has managed to give the city public art people want. As far as I know, the taxpayer-funded art still sucks.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 12:18:18 PM by AndyC » Logged

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« Reply #389 on: September 05, 2010, 12:23:54 PM »

Moles.   Hatred   Damn things are tearing up my yard.

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