You Know What Really Grinds My Gears?

[Flick James]

Flick ~ Agree 100% on you...

Although it annoys me when President Obama (or any other political offical) attacks FoxNEWS/Rush or the Tea Party. They do have the right of freedom of speech (just like the Hippies in the 1960's) and government shouldnt voice any opinions against that right.

It also annoys me when general news (I'm not even sure what to call them) isnt reporting news but propagands... I dont watch the news when I'm home but my Uncle does... and he typically watches CNN and everytime I see him, I cannot believe what I'm hearing from the news. Do they not realize people can look for the source information online to check the facts or they expect their viewers to be that lazy?

Unfortunately CNN has the same freedom of speech...

President Obama can attack Fox News, Rush or the Tea Party movement all he wants. I have no problem with that. Attacking is not the same as restricting. The G. W. administration attacked Al Gore's film An Uncomforable Truth, and there was nothing wrong with that either. Restriction is what I cannot abide.

[Skull]

actually there is nothing wrong with government/political figure attacking another government/political figure...

Although I kind of question your example, as far as I recall GW didnt verbally attack anybody and he was getting attack left and right (the war is a lie, Bush stole the election, 8 years of Bush's Recession, Bush started 911, [do I need to go on?] ect, ect, ect)

I just dont agree with government/political figures attacking citizens for using free speech. As I understand the freedom of speech protects the citizens to disagree with government... "Free Speech" was not ment for the government to have the freedom to verbally attack the citizens.

Dont forget... the bill of rights was geared towards the American People as an agreement that government is working for the people and government will never, never control the people. This is why the Bill of Rights is mostly focused on what government cannot do.

[Flick James]

actually there is nothing wrong with government/political figure attacking another government/political figure...

Although I kind of question your example, as far as I recall GW didnt verbally attack anybody and he was getting attack left and right (the war is a lie, Bush stole the election, 8 years of Bush's Recession, Bush started 911, [do I need to go on?] ect, ect, ect)

I just dont agree with government/political figures attacking citizens for using free speech. As I understand the freedom of speech protects the citizens to disagree with government... "Free Speech" was not ment for the government to have the freedom to verbally attack the citizens.

Dont forget... the bill of rights was geared towards the American People as an agreement that government is working for the people and government will never, never control the people. This is why the Bill of Rights is mostly focused on what government cannot do.

Don't try to pin me as an Obama supporter. I assure you I am not. I just find it funny that the right can call foul on attacks on the Bush administration while at the same time stooping to the same level of attack and lies against the Obama administration. The left seems to think they're above ridicule as well. The whole thing is a f**king joke to me. How anyone can hold any loyalty to or defend either of these parties anymore is beyond me.

[Skull]

Don't try to pin me as an Obama supporter.

Never intended or even attempted to try.

I just find it funny that the right can call foul on attacks on the Bush administration while at the same time stooping to the same level of attack and lies against the Obama administration.

Really? Please show me a major news outlet (beyond FOX) that has been half-ass attacking Obama? If it wasn’t for Fox and the Internet we would believe this is happy land... While Bush administration; he was nearly attack at every news outlet (including FOX) for one thing or another, even Rush has a few things against Bush. (Bush is a Republican but he’s no Conservitive.)

But that's not the point I was talking about...

I'm talking about Freedom of Speech and government making vocal attacks on the people. Do you recall Bush b***hing at Rosie O'Donnell or the woman on the View?  What about SNL?

Lets take a few steps backwards… Did Bill Clinton b***h about the sex jokes? Was Ronald Reagan angry with the people referring that he’s only acting as president and the “bedtime for bonzo” jokes? Although this is before my time, I don’t think Richard Nixon said anything against the peace movement (or war protesters).

Oh, what about when Bush left office and the people were singing… “na na hay hay goodbye” did Bush say something then?

So why is it ok for Obama to talk about the Tea Party? Why is it ok for GOVERNMENT to call them Tea Baggers? Or call then Racist? Anti-American? Etc…

[Flick James]

So why is it ok for Obama to talk about the Tea Party? Why is it ok for GOVERNMENT to call them Tea Baggers? Or call then Racist? Anti-American? Etc…

Oh, well, I don't know of any instances where elected officials have referred to the Tea Party movement as Tea Baggers. I thought that was a Bill Maher thing, but that's just to my knowledge. If elected officials are doing that, then I think it's inappropriate and classless, but then so was Congressman Joe Wilson when he shouted out "liar" when the President was talking, or the "birthers" who insist Obama was not born in the United States and have stooped to making up lies to support their cause. My point is that plenty of mud has gotten slung at Obama, not so much from the media but from other elected officials. I'm fine with all of it, regardless of whether I think it's appropriate or not. I don't buy for a second the notion that the Democrats are more underhanded than the Republicans, or vice versa. I think most high-level elected officials have lost their freaking minds, and I welcome third-party politicians challenging the rank and file.

The Tea Party, as far as my own personal perception is concerned, seem a little bit kooky to me, just like the hippies were. That's okay. I am in full support of dissent, and I get what they are about. I'm sure the original dissenters on the American Revolution seemed a bit kooky to the British. Kooks do get some s**t done. I still think calling them "Tea Baggers" is funny. Sue me.

[AndyC]

Government officials are citizens, same as anyone else. They can say what they want, within reason. They mostly say nothing in response to verbal attacks because they are held to account for what they say to a much higher degree than their critics. In practice, they are far less free to speak their minds than "the people" who can go around shooting their mouths off and taking no responsibility for the consequences.

The other side of the right to free speech is responsibility for what you say, and that includes giving some thought to whether it might be in everyone's best interest to just keep your mouth shut. While the media and the rest of the citizenry have no limits imposed on them, short of libel laws that are easy to get around, public officials always have to be careful what they say. Personally, if any of them decided to give back abuse on the level they have to take, I say good for them.

Not being American myself, I don't really care who your president is. My only interest in the US is that your problems have a way of becoming everyone's problem. Honestly, our government could function a lot better, but I can't understand how yours functions at all when there always seems to be somebody trying to undermine the guy in charge, no matter who he is or what he stands for.

What grinds my gears is people who go around talking about free speech like it's a licence to say anything you want without any responsibility for the consequences. Free speech exercised irresponsibly can do a lot of damage. And what Americans do to their leaders is like sitting in the back seat smacking the driver in the back of the head every five seconds and then complaining because you're not getting anywhere.

Sometimes you just need to shut up and let people do their jobs.

[Flick James]

And just to add something. This is not a dig at the Tea Party movement or a comment of any kind on what they stand for. I just thought it was funny that such a movement would be surprised at being called "teabaggers." They wear funny hats with teabags hanging off them, and hats and teashirts with slogans like "I teabagged Obama today." Is there any way for them NOT to get called teabaggers? Aren't the kookier and more colorful Tea Party protestors more responsible for the moniker than anyone in the media or government? But it's too late now. Their only option is to embrace the moniker. That's what the hippies did. They got called freaks enough times that they adopted it as a badge of honor.

[Skull]

Government officials are citizens, same as anyone else.

Not true… Government officials can make policies that affect the citizens; they are not the same. And shouldn’t be viewed as the same. I cannot make policies that affect a government official or even that affect other citizens, the only things that I can do to protest the Government Officials is voice my opinion (free speech) and not vote for them the next time around.

They can say what they want, within reason.

What is within reason? Somebody in congress saying, “The President lied about WMD’s” while it’s apparent that Saddam Hussein had the burden of proof for the UN inspectors. Nancy Pelosi calling the Tea Party members Un-American.

I do agree what your saying; unfortunately there are Government Officials that believes they can say what they want because the General News will not hold them accountable or at a higher standard.

Not being American myself, I don't really care who your president is. My only interest in the US is that your problems have a way of becoming everyone's problem. Honestly, our government could function a lot better, but I can't understand how yours functions at all when there always seems to be somebody trying to undermine the guy in charge, no matter who he is or what he stands for.

I’m not really good in explaining the linkage or the need for America’s existence but I really believe the modern world that we live in is relatively new. It could be pinpointed at the start of the United Nations but I think it’s much newer then that. I really think (and believe) the world has changed after the fall from the Berlin Wall and became this modern world once people realized that there is more then porn on the Internet… 1995, 1996… 1999 take your pick… the modern world is very new and dependent on the existence of the American Economy.

As for the abuse of freedom of speech, I agree what you are saying. Actually, I have never been so animated into voicing my political opinions until Bush’s second term. I really disagreed with the Bush Attacks and it angered me how the General News just reported it as facts… “The President lied about WMD’s” [Gee like I was born yesterday, really who was on Probation… Hussein or Bush? And what are you suppose to do to a dictator that doesn’t comply with the UN? What is the point for having a UN Resolutions if nobody complies with them?]

Anyway I really started to voice my opinion when McCain was the running Republican and for what reason that I cannot figure even today why? He was the first person that I’ve seen that was basically saying, “Vote for me, I’m McCain. War Hero, now I’m going to take a nap.” He was the only person running for president that didn’t fight for the job. While, Obama answered questions like Homer Simpson and the General News would say, this is the smartest guy on the planet… [Really? How many states are in the US Obama? The General News killed Dan Quayle for misspelling POTATO but the same General News does nothing to Obama… The guy doesn’t know how many states are in the USA ~ although that would be nit picking I guess]

What really irked me is when “Joe the plumber” asked Obama an honest question and Obama (typical Homer Simpson) told an honest answer… The General News instead of holding Obama accountable for his own words decides to anal probed “Joe the plumber” (he is a typical American exercising his freedom of speech… and he got anal probed for it)
 

What grinds my gears is people who go around talking about free speech like it's a license to say anything you want without any responsibility for the consequences.

Becoming an American Citizen seems to innate a license to say anything you want without any responsibility for the consequences; I believe that started from the Vietnam Protesters in the late 1960’s [burning the American Flag]; although I believe that was adopted from Dadaism (The protesting of World War 1). I’m not actually an expert here but I like to point my finger at those pot-smoking hippies anyway.

I like to blame our current education system for this. American Students are required by law to learn the US Constitution at the 8th grade, which would be good but those students are between the age of 12 to 14 years old and many will never get another US Constitution class because the students can legally drop out of high school at age 16… And you don’t exercise your right to vote until your 18 years old, so you have a 4-year gap from learning the ‘basic principles on the US Constitution.’

I’m not sure how but many of the students think “freedom of speech” is wearing a political statement in school and the school cannot say anything against it, in reality freedom of speech is a protection of your voiced opinion against the government without the threat of going into jail or being anal probed. (Although it didn’t help Joe the Plumber)

Somewhere between the 8th grade and High School something was lost, although I wouldn’t be too surprised a little Hollywood and the glamorous of the Hippy Revolution may install this innate license.

Free speech exercised irresponsibly can do a lot of damage.

Agree. And most of the irresponsible screaming in the past 40 years was based upon the liberal ideology for utopia. The pot-smoking hippies.

And what Americans do to their leaders is like sitting in the back seat smacking the driver in the back of the head every five seconds and then complaining because you're not getting anywhere.

LOL it’s annoying and bothersome…

My protest against Obama is simple… Fear for the Future (I didn’t like his vision when he was running for president and I don’t want to be a part of it)

Sometimes you just need to shut up and let people do their jobs.

Unfortunately most of us did and Obama got elected into office; he passed a stimulus bill that steals money from our children and grand children to pay for the Democrap and then passed the Health Care bill (without reading the thousand of pages or allowing any debates…).

Sorry, I don’t want any voting American to forget this…

Currently speaking, the insurance companies are stopping children only insurance plans (Thanks to the Health Care Law) and companies like McDonalds is thinking about dropping their insurance policy…

[AndyC]

You're absolutely right. I concede the entire argument. You are very wise and smart and probably handsome too.

Hey, why go on when it's only going to end with the thread locked?

So, Skull gets the last word on this one. Now, I suggest we get back to personal peeves of a more minor nature. Any more politics in this thread and I promise it will get locked.

[Skull]

You're absolutely right. I concede the entire argument. You are very wise and smart and probably handsome too.

Hey, why go on when it's only going to end with the thread locked?

So, Skull gets the last word on this one. Now, I suggest we get back to personal peeves of a more minor nature. Any more politics in this thread and I promise it will get locked.

Thanks...

but I'm feel much better finally venting my opinion, I've really wanted to say something like this a long time and I'm happy your reply got me going.


ps... I like this thread and I hope it never gets locked... but I think I had said enough on government at this point... (at least for now)

[Rev. Powell]

I can't understand how yours functions at all when there always seems to be somebody trying to undermine the guy in charge, no matter who he is or what he stands for.

That's largely by design.  The Founding Fathers thought government was little more than a necessary evil and political power grabs an inevitability.  They wanted leaders to be under constant scrutiny and criticism, even if it was unfair, to keep them from having too much power.  The rise of demagogues and monarchists were far more of a fear to them than was the threat of inefficient civil governance. 

Mocking the President is an American's patriotic duty, and I try to do my part no matter which party is in office.  Most of my fellow citizens only do it half the time. 

Mocking the Tea Party, now that's just for fun.

[Flick James]

I can't understand how yours functions at all when there always seems to be somebody trying to undermine the guy in charge, no matter who he is or what he stands for.

That's largely by design.  The Founding Fathers thought government was little more than a necessary evil and political power grabs an inevitability.  They wanted leaders to be under constant scrutiny and criticism, even if it was unfair, to keep them from having too much power.  The rise of demagogues and monarchists were far more of a fear to them than was the threat of inefficient civil governance. 

Mocking the President is an American's patriotic duty, and I try to do my part no matter which party is in office.  Most of my fellow citizens only do it half the time. 

Mocking the Tea Party, now that's just for fun.

My thoughts exactly. Anyone who sticks their neck out, like the Tea Party movement, are going to be subject to jokes and outright ridicule. If it's something worth fighting for, you'll suck it up.

[Skull]

Mocking the Tea Party, now that's just for fun.

My thoughts exactly. Anyone who sticks their neck out, like the Tea Party movement, are going to be subject to jokes and outright ridicule. If it's something worth fighting for, you'll suck it up.

lol and I completly agree as long as the jokester isnt a Government Entity; and Nancy Pelosi should be kicked out of office for calling the Tea Party or any American Citizen for using their free speech to protest government... Un-American.

[Trevor]

The fact that I can never get my undies 100% clean.....

[Sleepyskull]

What really grinds my gears?

When my pocket-watch repairman refuses to clean and oil the teeth!    It really ticks me off!