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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Speaking of cane toads.... « previous next »
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Author Topic: Speaking of cane toads....  (Read 1872 times)
BTM
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« on: September 16, 2010, 09:35:18 AM »

Okay, we got the documentary on Cane Toads on this site and that got me thinking... This situation, as I understand it, is this, they imported the cane toads from Central (or South, not sure which) America to Australia because they thought it would take care of the beetles that were eating up the sugar crops.  However, that didn't work and the toads have since started breeding out of control.  It's hard to stop them because they're poisonous and so there's not a lot of natural predators that can kill them without dying themselves.

So, here's my question.. what kept the cane toads in check in their natural environment (that is, the place they were originally imported from)?  I mean, since we don't (to my knowledge) have a cane toad epidemic in the Americas, what's holding them back there?  Is it a geographical barrier of some sort?  Or are there predators in that environment that can gobble those suckers down like popcorn without consequence?

Just curious.
 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 03:32:09 PM by BTM » Logged

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dean
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« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2010, 11:12:45 AM »

People talk about how Australia has a heap of dangerous animals, but the reality is we actually don't.  Sure we have poisonous snakes and spiders and up north crocodiles, but by and large we have no real predators here.

Not sure what kept them in check in other countries, but I figure we give them space to breed and they'll breed like rabbits on speed.  Couple that with the fact that they're breeding toads with larger hind legs so they jump further and migrate faster, I guess you got a bit of a problem. 

But then again I'm in the south and the cane toad problem is a long ways away, so I guess I don't really know much at all.
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Andrew
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« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2010, 12:00:15 PM »

From what I've heard the major problems are this:

They mature more quickly than native amphibians, giving them a leg up on pushing Australian toads and frogs out of their breeding grounds.
Native animals do not have ages of natural selection telling them that the cane toads are poisonous.

Based on those two points, I'd guess that other amphibians in their native region grow to adulthood within a period that keeps this from being a big advantage.  Also, there will be predators in their native region that are either immune to the poison, eat the toad to avoid the poison, or avoid the toads because they do neither and know better through instinct.
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Andrew Borntreger
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« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2010, 01:08:08 PM »

From what I've heard the major problems are this:

They mature more quickly than native amphibians, giving them a leg up on pushing Australian toads and frogs out of their breeding grounds.
Native animals do not have ages of natural selection telling them that the cane toads are poisonous.

Based on those two points, I'd guess that other amphibians in their native region grow to adulthood within a period that keeps this from being a big advantage.  Also, there will be predators in their native region that are either immune to the poison, eat the toad to avoid the poison, or avoid the toads because they do neither and know better through instinct.

Your point about immnity to poison gets me thinking about the mongoose,
and it's resistance to cobra venom.  They get bitten and never die from it. 

And this gets me thinking: You mentioned that other creatures in their native regions grow to adulthood in a time frame that sees them superior to the Cane Toad. 

And this is why I think the theory of resistance to poison comes in.

The first generation of predator(s) that enjoyed full immunity to the Cane Toad poison (thru whatever means) underwent a change in the DNA that saw them passing it on to future generations.  Sort of a long term evolutionary deal for the survival of the species.

Perhaps, what makes the Australia situation so probematic, is that the predators there don't have immunity to that particular poison. So while they can eat other creatures and get away with it (thru the natual process of intake and immunity) perhaps they will also have to undergo the same process of natural immunity to the Cane Toad.

Just a thought.
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« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2010, 03:38:20 PM »

Perhaps, what makes the Australia situation so probematic, is that the predators there don't have immunity to that particular poison. So while they can eat other creatures and get away with it (thru the natual process of intake and immunity) perhaps they will also have to undergo the same process of natural immunity to the Cane Toad.

I am guessing that it is natural selection at work.  Native predators also originally died from eating cane toads.  The ones that survived the poison due to some freak immunity are the ones that went on to breed, eventually resulting in all of them being immune to the cane toad poison.  The question is how long it will take Australia's predators to go through that natural vetting process.
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Andrew Borntreger
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BTM
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2010, 01:19:43 AM »

I am guessing that it is natural selection at work.  Native predators also originally died from eating cane toads.  The ones that survived the poison due to some freak immunity are the ones that went on to breed, eventually resulting in all of them being immune to the cane toad poison.  The question is how long it will take Australia's predators to go through that natural vetting process.


I did some research and here's a neat fact on that... turns out some types of domestic dogs are actually LICKING the toads just enough to "enjoy" some of the poison but not to kill them.  I'm guessing the toad's poison has some kind of effect on the dogs that makes it enjoyable to ingest.  (That or a lot of the dogs aren't as bright people think.)

Oh, another neat note, there's SEQUEL coming out to the cane toad movie!  It's called Cane Toads: The Conquest, and it's going to be in 3D!  Not sure about all the details, but among other things, the little girl from the first film (now an adult) is going to be in it.

http://www.canetoadstheconquest.com/
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