King City Removes Flag from Memorial

[InformationGeek]

http://www.wxii12.com/r/25036227/detail.html

Ignoring our beliefs (We don't need to start an arguement on that and get everyone frustrated), I'm annoyed that they removed the flag just because of one little annoying call.  The flag should stay up there.  It's part of a memorial and sure it represents some of the soldiers who are Christian, but it isn't violating any seperation of church and state.  It has no power to make one believe or not believe in anything.  This sort of reminds me of the Mojave Memorial Cross, but not as big.  This flag is part of a memorial to honor veterans, not some secret message that says the government and the church are together.

Now I will admit that a part of me is upset because of my faith, but the rest of me is upset they are taking a part of the memorial off because of one whiny person.  The city council didn't even seem to ask the families who had their love ones name on it about the flag.  Ugh.

[indianasmith]

Typical of America today - one whiny jerk threatens a lawsuit, the ACLU chimes in, and local officials cave.  Thus four hundred years of American heritage are chipped away, one memorial, one flag, one cross at a time . . . .




JERKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are they going to demand we pull up all the crosses in Arlington National Cemetery next?

[Jim H]

Typical of America today - one whiny jerk threatens a lawsuit, the ACLU chimes in, and local officials cave.  Thus four hundred years of American heritage are chipped away, one memorial, one flag, one cross at a time . . . .




JERKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are they going to demand we pull up all the crosses in Arlington National Cemetery next?

Did you watch the video?  One of the complainers (the video implies more than one, but the article implies just one) was a veteran, and according to what he told the ACLU, when he complained to the county manager he told him he'd have to stand before Jesus and God and be judged for making such a complaint, and the mayor told him the council would have to pray for him.  Such obnoxious treatment was likely a reason he got the ACLU involved. 

The flag should stay up there.  It's part of a memorial and sure it represents some of the soldiers who are Christian, but it isn't violating any seperation of church and state.

Well, the general idea is the government is paying for iconography of one religion over others.  In other words, it's sponsoring and promoting the religion (even if in a relatively innocuous manner), thus violating the Establishment clause.  According to basically all previous court cases similar to this one, the ACLU is completely correct, and considering the memorial went up in 2004, the council really should have known this. 

As a personal aside, I don't know why anyone flies a Christian flag.  They always seem kind of ugly to me, especially in comparison to the more simplistic wooden or stone crosses.



As far as Arlington:

http://www.aclu.org/images/asset_upload_file399_26244.pdf

[Umaril The Unfeathered]

Typical of America today - one whiny jerk threatens a lawsuit, the ACLU chimes in, and local officials cave.  Thus four hundred years of American heritage are chipped away, one memorial, one flag, one cross at a time . . . .




JERKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are they going to demand we pull up all the crosses in Arlington National Cemetery next?

The ACLU did the same thing in NY earlier this year...a veteran was forbidden by his landlord, from flying the American Flag on his rental property, because his neighbors were all offended by it.

The man finally won his case, but now he can only fly it in his backyard, and cannot display it in his car or front window. Isn't that a load of bullsh*t?

Funny, you can't display the Flag, but noone says a thing when some gum cracking, smartass little tweenie burns it to show off for his little girlfriends out in Berkeley....

[Jim H]

http://www.democratherald.com/news/local/article_1b6bf198-b50e-11de-b924-001cc4c002e0.html

Is this what you were talking about Umaril?  If so, that's one of those things the ACLU knows the legalities of, and the organization is well aware that renters can have public displays controlled by the property owners - since, well, they don't own the property.  As another example, I know someone who was forced to park his own vehicle out of the apartment lot because it was rusted and ugly and other tenants didn't like it.  I don't think it's right, but that's the way it works.

So basically, the ACLU just stayed out of the situation, since there isn't any legal ground being infringed upon.  In other words, there's no illegal infringement of rights, so there's no ground for a lawsuit.  There have been other cases where it appears the ACLU is philosophically against something, but know they can't win legally, so they stay out of it.  Restrictions on student speech in general seem to be among these. 

If I've got the wrong case, I'd like to see the right one, as I'm pretty curious. 

An example of a different kind:

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/homeowner-has-right-fly-historic-military-flag-aclu-arizona-says?tab=all

[Rev. Powell]

Surely not everyone buried in the cemetery is a believing Christian.  If just one zombie veteran objects to the flag, I say it's the right move to take it down.

[dean]

Surely not everyone buried in the cemetery is a believing Christian.  If just one zombie veteran objects to the flag, I say it's the right move to take it down.

They'll give Zombies rights over my dead body darn it!

[Umaril The Unfeathered]

http://www.democratherald.com/news/local/article_1b6bf198-b50e-11de-b924-001cc4c002e0.html

If I've got the wrong case, I'd like to see the right one, as I'm pretty curious.

Right case.  But since Mexican flags were also mentioned, I see where this is going now...

I'm going to say what I'm going to say, and I make no apologies, because I fully support our Vets:  The landlord is full of baloney. It's not "fairness to all."  The fact that Mexican flags are involved explains it all: the landlord dosen't want to lose their monthly income from her diverse base of offended renters.  So, Old Glory comes down and once again, the loud minority turns America into an ever growing paper tiger.

It's not about fairness, it's about monthly income. This man served America, fought and bled while these people most likely stayed home and watched it on TV. he has every right to fly Old Glory. Instead, he's shoved aside for money.

Next time, maybe the landlord or the other tenants should go out with a 100+ pound backpack and hoof it thru SE Asia or the boiling hot sands of Iraq.

Old Glory comes down for noone.


Posted by Jim H

An example of a different kind

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/homeowner-has-right-fly-historic-military-flag-aclu-arizona-says?tab=all


Well as you move West you have a more conservative view, and I only wonder if this would be allowed somewhere in the NE, where more liberal views abound. At least someone has respect for our Vets. More people should try it sometime...

[Allhallowsday]

Well as you move West you have a more conservative view, and I only wonder if this would be allowed somewhere in the NE, where more liberal views abound. At least someone has respect for our Vets. More people should try it sometime...

I think the difference is the fellow in AZ owns his home.  Still, home owner's associations are notorious for bullying individualistically minded members.

[Umaril The Unfeathered]

Well as you move West you have a more conservative view, and I only wonder if this would be allowed somewhere in the NE, where more liberal views abound. At least someone has respect for our Vets. More people should try it sometime...

I think the difference is the fellow in AZ owns his home.  Still, home owner's associations are notorious for bullying individualistically minded members.

You got that right, homeowners associations think they can dictate every personal inch
of your property.  I've seen it for myself with my neighbors and some of their issues, as well as some of my own issues.

They give you the old "well everyone else is in line, why don't you get on the bandwagon with us" attitude, and if you don't, a day dosen't go by that you don't hear about it.