Is it such a big deal?

[macabre]

hi
I watched an old horror movie last night titled Hell Night,(not the Linda Blair one) anyway this guy had to take a picture of this inmate in an asylum so that he could join the local schools fraternity. This got me thinking lots of movies have these young willing victims doing stupid pranks so they can join the local fraternity.
So i was wondering is it such a big deal to be in these kind of groups and what have any of you guys done to join the fraternity at your school?

[The Burgomaster]

hi
I watched an old horror movie last night titled Hell Night,(not the Linda Blair one) anyway this guy had to take a picture of this inmate in an asylum so that he could join the local schools fraternity. This got me thinking lots of movies have these young willing victims doing stupid pranks so they can join the local fraternity.
So i was wondering is it such a big deal to be in these kind of groups and what have any of you guys done to join the fraternity at your school?

I never joined a fraternity, mostly because I didn't live on campus.  I lived at home and commuted.  I did, however, get invited to some of my friends' frat parties.  So, I got to experience the booze and debauchery without getting my ass paddled.

[Menard]

This might be a little deeper answer than what you were fishing for.


Throughout our lives we have an innate and fostered desire to impress others.

By innate, we see this in animals, and in boys when they are around girls; at which point the mentality is about equal.

Animals show off to establish to establish territory and dominance.

Boys show off because they think it impresses girls; they don't see the girls gathering later and giggling behind the gym. In some ways it does show which sex is superior, when just with a look a girl can get a boy to run smack into a wall, and she's still not impressed.

By fostering, we are brought up, most anyway, being told "at a boy" for the most menial things we accomplish, making us think that these stupid little things that we do are important, impressive, and we do them more for the congratulations; only regretting it later when someone pulls out the family album with pictures of us being "so cute", and embarrassing the hell out of us.

Later comes ribbons, trophies, and clubs. Part of impressing and being territorial is belonging; being something or somebody because we belong to it.

Add to this the desire to reject authority which is so much a part of youth and projecting it at our parents in our teenage years; and yes, belonging, being part of something which identifies some loser looking for an identity combined combined with an opportunity to be anti-authoritarian is a powerful stimulant and a big deal.

[Umaril The Unfeathered]

Great post, Menard!

Gotta agree with you, I've done more than my fair share of things to try to impress the girls, like trying to chop a board in half with my hands when I was 13.

I missed the first time and hit my wrist, and the pain made me smack it over and over, and the the third time it broke like a matchstick.

Yeah they were impressed, but I hairline fractured my wrist, and afterward the girls just looked at each other and said, "let's go to Jen's house."  Ego deflated...

Talk about feeling like you did something for nothing, not to mention the partially broken wrist. And then there's my mom occasionally reminding me of the incident even to this day...

[Ed, Ego and Superego]

Wow menard, thats something.  Nice discourse!
-Ed

[El Misfit]

Boys show off because they think it impresses girls; they don't see the girls gathering later and giggling behind the gym. In some ways it does show which sex is superior, when just with a look a girl can get a boy to run smack into a wall, and she's still not impressed.

Isn't the guys usually the dumb jocks who think that giving wedgies to nerds to impress the girls? And these guys are still idiots because picking on a weaker person than they are is just disgusting here's the response that I give to those guys:
YOU SUCK, IDIOTS

[Skull]

So i was wondering is it such a big deal to be in these kind of groups and what have any of you guys done to join the fraternity at your school?

It really depends, I've remember a few years back somebody has died from a hazing.

As I understand they are not legal.


Menard ~ nice job... although I think the intent of hazing is to himulate the person joining the club.

[Paquita]

So what about sororities?  I’ll admit, all I know about sororities is what I learned from the Lifetime channel and massacre movies, which is the same thing - a bunch of girls in college living together with a goal to be the most respected whores in school, often degrading, devaluing, and dehumanizing  themselves to get in.  Maybe this is the exaggerated movie version of a sorority, and in real life they’re more like a supportive study group?  I don’t know anyone that has ever been in or wanted to be in a sorority or fraternity.

[Menard]

So what about sororities?  I’ll admit, all I know about sororities is what I learned from the Lifetime channel and massacre movies, which is the same thing - a bunch of girls in college living together with a goal to be the most respected whores in school, often degrading, devaluing, and dehumanizing  themselves to get in.  Maybe this is the exaggerated movie version of a sorority, and in real life they’re more like a supportive study group?  I don’t know anyone that has ever been in or wanted to be in a sorority or fraternity.

That is a good question as there is quite a distinction in the raising of boys and girls, primarily due to archaic social mores infused by ignorant religious beliefs which should have died out centuries ago when people should have stopped believing in fairy tales.

I've never had any experience being raised as a girl, though I'm certain several others on this forum have , I'll toss out a few opinions on the topic.

This may be a crude start, and...shock...that I could be crude, but how many guys (real ones) on this forum have heard during sex "you mean like this"?

Girls are brought up differently than boys, in certain areas, with expectations to please and foster.

Boys don't pay attention to their appearance as girls do.

Boys are more likely to kill their pets than girls; they are not brought up to nurture.

Notice that as girls are brought up to nurture, hence the strongest influence on boys and girls is their mothers.

Boys seek to impress their mothers, show off, and of course to much later be embarrassed by their mothers when they pull out the aforementioned family photo album. Not only do they seek to impress, but they also seek to dominate their mothers by becoming the apple of mom's eye, taking attention away from their fathers.

Girls, on the other hand, being brought up with expectations of being nurturers, seek to fit into a unit. Girls will seek the attentions of their fathers, but not in a competition like boys will with their mothers as girls still need their mothers' acceptance, but to be accepted like their mothers. Fathers are protectors; hence, learning to please is gaining acceptance, and acceptance is security.

Keep in mind that there is a desire to belong for both boys and girls, but girls aren't as mundane as boys. Boys are territorial and notch counters, size matters; girls on the other hand are more communal. Ribbons to boys are badges and notches, to girls they are degrees of acceptance.


To give an example of that:

I've had one item from my younger years which had a certain degree of importance to me; that was my first camera as a photographer. I had thought that if I ever had someone I thought was very special in my life, and I don't mean a girlfriend, I would give that to them; just this past year I gave that camera to a very special girl to me.

Knowing how I would have probably reacted as a teenage boy, the camera itself, how neat or cool it is, would have probably been its value. To her, and she shows it off, it's not the camera that's important, but the giving of it to her that is its value.


Despite differences in boys and girls and how they are raised, both do seek similar things in belonging. There may be degrees between mundane and spiritual, between conquest and acceptance, between badges and security, but ultimately it comes down to both needing to belong and needing to fulfill their innate and fostered desires.

[Newt]

So what about sororities?  I’ll admit, all I know about sororities is what I learned from the Lifetime channel and massacre movies, which is the same thing - a bunch of girls in college living together with a goal to be the most respected whores in school, often degrading, devaluing, and dehumanizing  themselves to get in.  Maybe this is the exaggerated movie version of a sorority, and in real life they’re more like a supportive study group?  I don’t know anyone that has ever been in or wanted to be in a sorority or fraternity.

The things women find tortuous or difficult would not translate into 'good' movie material: they simply are not visual enough.  I knew a few sorority members: they were just fairly ambitious women who were motivated to belong to an organized social group that provided a stable social base, supported various charities AND had the added benefits of being the foundation of a network that could give them connections that would be helpful in future endeavors. The right frat or sorority can open doors and grease wheels.  The idea that sororites would require women to debase themselves as popularly shown in movies is largely wishful thinking on the part of males.    Sure, the parties tend to be large and well-funded (which leads to loud and maybe wild) but I found that to be more typical of frat parties than the ones hosted by sororities.  And even then they were nothing like the movies!  It is entirely possible my school was generally on the more civilized side.

[Flick James]

I've never joined a fraternity. To quote Groucho Marx:

"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."

[Umaril The Unfeathered]

I've never joined a fraternity. To quote Groucho Marx:

"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."

I believe Groucho also joked about the fact that Jewish folk weren't alllowed at a local pool one time. He said, "My son is only half Jewish, does that mean that he can go in up to his knees?"     Groucho was always the master of the insult. 

[Jim H]

So what about sororities?  I’ll admit, all I know about sororities is what I learned from the Lifetime channel and massacre movies, which is the same thing - a bunch of girls in college living together with a goal to be the most respected whores in school, often degrading, devaluing, and dehumanizing  themselves to get in.  Maybe this is the exaggerated movie version of a sorority, and in real life they’re more like a supportive study group?  I don’t know anyone that has ever been in or wanted to be in a sorority or fraternity.

The things women find tortuous or difficult would not translate into 'good' movie material: they simply are not visual enough.  I knew a few sorority members: they were just fairly ambitious women who were motivated to belong to an organized social group that provided a stable social base, supported various charities AND had the added benefits of being the foundation of a network that could give them connections that would be helpful in future endeavors. The right frat or sorority can open doors and grease wheels.  The idea that sororites would require women to debase themselves as popularly shown in movies is largely wishful thinking on the part of males.    Sure, the parties tend to be large and well-funded (which leads to loud and maybe wild) but I found that to be more typical of frat parties than the ones hosted by sororities.  And even then they were nothing like the movies!  It is entirely possible my school was generally on the more civilized side.

I've read some of a few books about sorority and frat initiations (you end up reading lots of random bits in books when you work in a library shelving books).  And yes, I'd lean towards your school being a more civilized one.  They don't have the same level of brutality, but some sororities have extremely harsh expectations and initiations - in some cases including behaviors like expectations of sexual services, chain sex as initiation, extreme expectations on weight and physical appearance (including hazing rituals and expulsion for violators), behavior expectations, and so forth.  Then, of course, there are sororities that have few or none of these destructive behaviors present.  This is also true of fraternities - I'd hazard a guess and say the average frat is worse though.

[Flick James]

I've never joined a fraternity. To quote Groucho Marx:

"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."

I believe Groucho also joked about the fact that Jewish folk weren't alllowed at a local pool one time. He said, "My son is only half Jewish, does that mean that he can go in up to his knees?"     Groucho was always the master of the insult. 

Agreed. Part of it was that he made as much fun of himself as he did the other person. Kind of like saying, "I'll make as much fun of you as I want, because I'm dishing it out to myself in spades." And in some ways it was even MORE insulting because it was like saying "don't even bother coming back at me, because you're not going to do better than me."

[BTM]

The idea that sororities would require women to debase themselves as popularly shown in movies is largely wishful thinking on the part of males.  

Wait, you mean there AREN'T any spanking sessions or games of naked Twister?   

But, seriously, back to the subject at hand... like others, I really can't say much about fraternities, I lived off-campus and commuted.  Part of me wishes I could have lived in a dorm though, maybe I would have felt more "connected" to the school and managed to have made a few more friends rather than just feel like I was just a ghost floating on by.