Star Wars Question

[Ed, Ego and Superego]

This is over thinking, but I wonder if it was generally knmwn that Vader was really known to be the "heir".  It seems that he was just known to be the Emperor's thug/troubleshooter/fixer. 
"So you are holding Vader's leash now" etc.
-Ed

[ChocolateChipCharlie]

I still have and watch my old VHS copies of the THX remastered versions that weren't befouled by Lucas' 90's and 00's freakout.  There are a couple things he added that are ok, but for the most part everything that was added makes the movies worse.

[sideorderofninjas]

The novelization of Star Wars had a prologue which explained Palpatine's rise to power through the Senate to Emperor in barely over a page.  Guess that could have saved a lot grief to fans over Episodes 1-3...

[Skull]

I still have and watch my old VHS copies of the THX remastered versions that weren't befouled by Lucas' 90's and 00's freakout.  There are a couple things he added that are ok, but for the most part everything that was added makes the movies worse.

Agree... the whole Greedo shooting first was insanely bad...

But the worst part was when Han actually walked around (and over) Jabba... Gee the scene gives too much power to Han (since he's stepping on the mob leader) and it doesnt convince us because Jabba in Return of the Jedi is quite large.

[Chainsawmidget]

But the worst part was when Han actually walked around (and over) Jabba... Gee the scene gives too much power to Han (since he's stepping on the mob leader) and it doesnt convince us because Jabba in Return of the Jedi is quite large.

If that doesn't convince you that Lucas didn't have everything planned out ahead of time, how about this.


That yellow walrus looking guy is Jabba as he appeared in the original comicbook adaption long before the fat slug movie version showed up. 

[Ed, Ego and Superego]

They shot test footage of a human jobba... a fat guy in a fur coat:

[ChocolateChipCharlie]

They shot test footage of a human jobba... a fat guy in a fur coat:

They didn't intend to CGI over the fat guy when they shot that though, right?  I mean, there were no effects back then that would have been even mildly convincing for a shot like that.  They could have done stop motion or a guy in a fat slug suit, but either one of those would have been filmed directly, not added later with effects.

Lucas couldn't just leave a masterpiece alone.  He had to go and try to ruin it.  Wanna know why nobody has remade Citizen Kane or Casablanca, George?  It's because they're masterworks and only an egotistical idiot would try to improve on them.

[ulthar]

Apparently (I have not read it, I'm getting this from wikipedia), in her book Icons: Intimate Portraits, Denise Worrell gives this 1983 (pre-prequel) quote from Lucas:

There was never a script complete that had the entire story as it exists now [1983]... As the stories unfolded, I would take certain ideas and save them[...] I kept taking out all the good parts, and I just kept telling myself I would make other movies someday.

The wikipedia article goes on to say that no script exists that shows the full story (of even just the original trilogy) as Lucas has claimed.  The closest that can be confirmed is that he had an STAR WARS script that had the asteroid field of ESB and the forest battle of ROTJ...but NONE of the other story elements of either (ie, Vader being Luke's father, etc, etc).

Early drafts of the original script had Luke's father still alive and training his son; the dead father element came rather late and it seems there is no documented proof (in the form of script drafts or production notes) that Vader = Father or Leia = Sister, etc.

It sure seems to me that all of that came later and was weak exploitation of the success of STAR WARS.  Rather than creating a NEW story, Lucas cashed in on his earlier success by tacking on a bunch of back story that is nonsensical within the universe defined solely by Ep. IV.

It's a shame, really.  But, it was his property to do with as he pleased.  Too bad one of the most ground breaking movies ever made was diluted like that, though.

[AndyC]

  I was a kid when Star Wars first came out and back then, before all this midichlorian business, I was under the impression that The Force was influenced by the user's will, kind of like Green Lantern's ring. I thought this because while entering Mos Eisley Obi-Wan tells Luke that the Force can contol the weak minded, or something to that effect(These are not the droids you're lokoking for). Tarkin seems pretty tough minded and I just thought that he was strong willed enough to resist any of Vader's Force based shenanigans. Plus anyone who rises to Imperial Governor is probably no slouch in the Evil or Ego department. 

And if the emperor tells Vader to let Tarkin run the show, he's going to obey. Mind you, if Tarkin seriously screwed up (without getting blown up), Vader would no doubt have removed him from command. Vader was kind of a big-picture guy throughout the first three movies, doing his own thing and letting the military commanders take care of business, unless they messed up.

But I don't think Vader was necessarily envisioned as the emperor's right-hand man from the start. In A New Hope, he was clearly a henchman. Maybe the most ruthless, intelligent and powerful thug at the emperor's disposal, but still a thug. I got the impression that Vader was always taking someone's orders, hence Princess Leia's little dig about Tarkin "holding Vader's leash." He was widely feared, but only as the disfigured psychopath who gets called in for the really tough jobs. He was like the primary henchman in a James Bond movie - working for the villain, but more formidable than his boss and more autonomous than the other henchmen. While having no official rank, it's clear he's above generals and admirals from the beginning, but taking orders from the regional governor, which is apparently what a Grand Moff is.

And although Vader moved even farther up the ladder, he never quite becomes the villain. The closest he gets is in The Empire Strikes Back, where the emperor makes an appearance, but Vader is running the whole show. Then the emperor fully assumes the role of villain. Vader was always a henchman.

[Flick James]

  I was a kid when Star Wars first came out and back then, before all this midichlorian business, I was under the impression that The Force was influenced by the user's will, kind of like Green Lantern's ring. I thought this because while entering Mos Eisley Obi-Wan tells Luke that the Force can contol the weak minded, or something to that effect(These are not the droids you're lokoking for). Tarkin seems pretty tough minded and I just thought that he was strong willed enough to resist any of Vader's Force based shenanigans. Plus anyone who rises to Imperial Governor is probably no slouch in the Evil or Ego department. 

And if the emperor tells Vader to let Tarkin run the show, he's going to obey. Mind you, if Tarkin seriously screwed up (without getting blown up), Vader would no doubt have removed him from command. Vader was kind of a big-picture guy throughout the first three movies, doing his own thing and letting the military commanders take care of business, unless they messed up.

But I don't think Vader was necessarily envisioned as the emperor's right-hand man from the start. In A New Hope, he was clearly a henchman. Maybe the most ruthless, intelligent and powerful thug at the emperor's disposal, but still a thug. I got the impression that Vader was always taking someone's orders, hence Princess Leia's little dig about Tarkin "holding Vader's leash." He was widely feared, but only as the disfigured psychopath who gets called in for the really tough jobs. He was like the primary henchman in a James Bond movie - working for the villain, but more formidable than his boss and more autonomous than the other henchmen. While having no official rank, it's clear he's above generals and admirals from the beginning, but taking orders from the regional governor, which is apparently what a Grand Moff is.

And although Vader moved even farther up the ladder, he never quite becomes the villain. The closest he gets is in The Empire Strikes Back, where the emperor makes an appearance, but Vader is running the whole show. Then the emperor fully assumes the role of villain. Vader was always a henchman.

I quite agree about The Force. When they started talking about midichlorians in the newer trilogy, I cool concept of The Force was ruined for me.

[AndyC]

I never understood why the midichlorians were added. There was nothing in the prequels that would have made any less sense without them. All it accomplished was to ruin what was already a nice, neat idea that gave just the right amount of plausibility to fit magic into the story.