Bad Movie Logo
"A website to the detriment of good film"
Custom Search
HOMEB-MOVIE REVIEWSREADER REVIEWSFORUMINTERVIEWSUPDATESABOUT
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 01:57:55 AM
713384 Posts in 53058 Topics by 7725 Members
Latest Member: wibwao
Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Let's Wax Philosophical . . . « previous next »
Poll
Question: Was humanity created deliberately - or did we just happen?
Designed
Just happened
Don't know

Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Author Topic: Let's Wax Philosophical . . .  (Read 13492 times)
indianasmith
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 2591
Posts: 15182


A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« on: December 09, 2010, 08:19:45 PM »

I know in my prowlings around the Internet, that I have run into people of every belief system, and many with no beliefs at all.  I know that what we believe is a major shaping force in our own self image.  So let me pose to you the most basic question of all:  How did we get here?  Do you believe that mankind was created, or at least, was planned to be here by some supernatural force - be it the God of the Bible, Plato's elusive Prime Mover, or even Great Cthulhu himself?  This answer doesn't rule out evolutionary development, it just addresses whether or not there was any superintending presence behind it.

Or, did we just happen?  Are we, as Darwin envisioned, just a freak genetic accident, a random series of mutations, with no eternal or cosmological significance whatsoever?

Or does thinking about this stuff make your head hurt?

Not trying to open a grand religious flame war, but I am curious as to what most people will answer.  Did we just happen, or were we placed here for a reason?
Logged

"I shall smite you in the nostrils with a rod of iron, and wax your spleen with Efferdent!!"
indianasmith
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 2591
Posts: 15182


A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2010, 08:21:11 PM »

Since it's my poll, I'll reply first.  I've never tried to hide my faith on this board - I believe that we were designed.  I don't rule out evolution as a means God used to diversify the life he created, but I believe that humanity is unique and special, and was placed here for a reason.
Logged

"I shall smite you in the nostrils with a rod of iron, and wax your spleen with Efferdent!!"
Rev. Powell
Global Moderator
B-Movie Kraken
****

Karma: 3100
Posts: 26772


Click on that globe for 366 Weird Movies


WWW
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2010, 09:01:38 PM »

In an absolute sense, everyone should answer "don't know."  None of us know.

Still, I answered "just happened," as I don't see any evidence for the contrary position (though it can't be absolutely ruled out). 
Logged

I'll take you places the hand of man has not yet set foot...
Rev. Powell
Global Moderator
B-Movie Kraken
****

Karma: 3100
Posts: 26772


Click on that globe for 366 Weird Movies


WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2010, 09:07:53 PM »

Oh, and Darwin himself might well have voted "don't know" rather than "just happened."

"I may say that the impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for the existence of God; but whether this is an argument of real value, I have never been able to decide."--Charles Darwin, 1873
Logged

I'll take you places the hand of man has not yet set foot...
indianasmith
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 2591
Posts: 15182


A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2010, 11:27:28 PM »

thanks Rev!  Darwin was a wise soul in many ways . . . . I wonder what he would think of what the world has done with his ideas?
Logged

"I shall smite you in the nostrils with a rod of iron, and wax your spleen with Efferdent!!"
RCMerchant
Bela
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 0
Posts: 30435


"Charlie,we're in HELL!"-"yeah,ain't it groovy?!"


WWW
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2010, 11:37:21 PM »

When were dead. we'll know. Personally...I dont wanna live my life again.

Small | Large

I don' wanna live my life again.
I aint kiding. I wanna just go. Why drag sh!t out?  Question
I aint scairt!  I am Dam ready!   Smile
Logged

"Supernatural?...perhaps. Baloney?...Perhaps not!" Bela Lugosi-the BLACK CAT (1934)
Interviewer-"Does Dracula ever end for you?
Lugosi-"No. Dracula-never ends."

Slobber, Drool, Drip!
https://www.tumblr.com/ronmerchant
indianasmith
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 2591
Posts: 15182


A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2010, 12:22:28 AM »

RC, there are days I really wish you hadn't deactivated your karma!

Ya know - I would do it all over again.  For all my occasional complaints, I've really had a blest life.

Peace to all!
Logged

"I shall smite you in the nostrils with a rod of iron, and wax your spleen with Efferdent!!"
dean
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 267
Posts: 3635



« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2010, 02:06:32 AM »

Thinking about this stuff is kinda fun.  My instincts tell me that we were not created/designed.  This is despite my heart wanting to have something 'else' out there in the world.  I just figure there's so much we don't know about the world that we cannot have the full picture as of yet to conclusively prove one over the other.  So whilst I'm more on the "happened" side I selected 'don't know.'

I guess most of this stems from my lack of distrust of institutionalised religion; how can you believe when there are so many different inconsistent versions of religion.  That and my dabbling in ancient civilisations and myths etc kinda lead me to the ad hoc conclusion that most religions are well told pseudo-histories rather than actual 100% fact.  

I won't bother going into too much detail, but many ancient pre-christian myths seem to follow a similar structure to some biblical stories, so its kinda like they have been co-opted and adapted to suit, kind of like how the English language has taken bits and pieces from other languages to form its own style; its not the original and true language.  

Plus it seemed that the trend 'back in the day' was to give your particular group/people some semi-religious significance to try and give your power legitimacy, such as Virgil's Aeneid which was commissioned to make Romans feel like they were part of something bigger by linking their lineage to Troy, when it was in fact fiction.

Not that I disagree with religion, or discount the possibility of there being more, but science combined with history seem to make a reasonably good case that a specifically Christian version of creation [or any religion for that matter] is probably less likely than the alternative.


I guess I should ask Indy: Whilst you mention you believe we were 'put here for a reason,' you do leave the door open for a not-so-traditional Christian method of creation that involves a bit of evolution.  Given that, how do you justify being such a fervent follower of a particular faith, when even your own opinion seems to diverge from the 'source text'?  I guess I have a hard time giving one particular religion legitimacy over the other since so many are similar, yet slightly different/interpreted differently to the point that you think its truth has been diluted away.

I'm basing this mainly on those stereotypical religious folk who seem to believe that we only go back about 5000 years or so, which I will go out on a limb and assume is not your specific belief.

I suppose I already know the answer based on previous posts in other threads, so there's no need to justify yourself, its just a curious thought that popped into my head.  Its not as on topic either, the question being were we created [not specified by what] vs happening.  

On a side note, is there anyone here who thinks we were created, by aliens?   TeddyR
Logged

------------The password will be: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
indianasmith
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 2591
Posts: 15182


A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2010, 07:22:51 AM »

My faith is centered around Jesus Christ, and what I believe to be the undeniable historical reality of His resurrection.  If He truly rose from the dead, then He was truly the Son of God.  If He was truly the Son of God, then the rest of the book is true as well.  That being said, there are about a half dozen ways to reconcile the Biblical account in Genesis with what geology tells about the earth - the most basic of which is this: God was trying to explain an incredibly long and complex process to a person who lived and wrote 1400 years before Christ.  He simplified the narrative to match his audience's ability to understand - kind of like one of us explaining how a carburator works to a 4 year old.
Logged

"I shall smite you in the nostrils with a rod of iron, and wax your spleen with Efferdent!!"
Jack
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 1141
Posts: 10327



« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 07:34:22 AM »

I think we just happened.  I'm an atheist, though I'm certainly not 100% sure I'm right about that, it's just that the evidence for God doesn't convince me.  I'm a firm believer in science.  I don't believe this renders our existence completely insignificant though.  The Big Bang, the expansion of the universe, the various stages of its development, the infinite number of nuclear and chemical reactions that have taken place over billions of years - eventually resulting in us...it's really quite incredible to think about.  Like a living organism of unimaginable size and complexity, always evolving, and we've only taken a few tiny steps towards understanding it.  Calculus, the Theory of Relativity;  that stuff was only invented over the last couple hundred years.  Just imagine what wonders will be discovered a thousand, or ten thousand years from now, as our science evolves.  We'll look back at our current understanding of things and compare it to cavemen trying to build a fire.  

As someone on Babylon 5 once said, we are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 07:39:32 AM by Jack » Logged

The world is changed by your example, not by your opinion.

- Paulo Coelho
Doggett
Bustin' makes me feel good !
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 979
Posts: 8413


I've seen things you people couldn't imagine...


WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2010, 08:04:48 AM »

I think if there is a God, it's nothing like the religions think It is.

It would be far to great a concept for anyone to understand. Its why I'm always slighty baffled when I see religious people who claim to how it works. And then they say, "The Lord works in mysterious ways", which is just another way of saying, we don't have a clue.

No-one knows, or ever will know, where the universe came from originally.
The origin of the unvierse and life will alwasy be a mystery. There could well be some greater being, a creature that would permeate through all matter through-out the multi-verse but no living being in the cosmos will ever understand it.

We're all far to small. I also think that if It existed, we would be far too small for It to care about us.

I bet in some galaxies far away, there are some aliens thinking exactly the same thing.
Logged

                                             

If God exists, why did he make me an atheist? Thats His first mistake.
Derf
Crazy Rabbity Thingy
Proofreader
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 429
Posts: 2564


Lagomorphs: menace or underutilized resource?


« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2010, 08:42:24 AM »


I guess most of this stems from my lack of distrust of institutionalised religion; how can you believe when there are so many different inconsistent versions of religion.  That and my dabbling in ancient civilisations and myths etc kinda lead me to the ad hoc conclusion that most religions are well told pseudo-histories rather than actual 100% fact.  

I won't bother going into too much detail, but many ancient pre-christian myths seem to follow a similar structure to some biblical stories, so its kinda like they have been co-opted and adapted to suit, kind of like how the English language has taken bits and pieces from other languages to form its own style; its not the original and true language.  

Plus it seemed that the trend 'back in the day' was to give your particular group/people some semi-religious significance to try and give your power legitimacy, such as Virgil's Aeneid which was commissioned to make Romans feel like they were part of something bigger by linking their lineage to Troy, when it was in fact fiction.

Not that I disagree with religion, or discount the possibility of there being more, but science combined with history seem to make a reasonably good case that a specifically Christian version of creation [or any religion for that matter] is probably less likely than the alternative.


I guess I should ask Indy: Whilst you mention you believe we were 'put here for a reason,' you do leave the door open for a not-so-traditional Christian method of creation that involves a bit of evolution.  Given that, how do you justify being such a fervent follower of a particular faith, when even your own opinion seems to diverge from the 'source text'?  I guess I have a hard time giving one particular religion legitimacy over the other since so many are similar, yet slightly different/interpreted differently to the point that you think its truth has been diluted away.

I'm basing this mainly on those stereotypical religious folk who seem to believe that we only go back about 5000 years or so, which I will go out on a limb and assume is not your specific belief.

I suppose I already know the answer based on previous posts in other threads, so there's no need to justify yourself, its just a curious thought that popped into my head.  Its not as on topic either, the question being were we created [not specified by what] vs happening.  


Indy makes a good point about this. As to the similarity of other cultures' creation legends, one thing to remember is that the first chapters of Genesis are the only ones not written by an eye witness. Moses was raised in the most advanced culture of his day and educated in the royal school of Egypt. When he was assembling/writing the creation story, he had to rely on verbal histories and written fragments. Since he was a Hebrew, it's pretty natural that he "slanted" the creation story to feature the Hebrews' role through history. This, to me, leaves a lot of room for a Creation story that uses whatever means God so chooses to make the universe, be it a straightforward *POOF* or a gradual evolutionary process. If God is capable of creating the universe at all, then He is capable of doing it through multiple means.

As to whether we can be sure, I'd have to agree with Doggett to a large degree. God is far greater than most people allow for. Even with a Judeo-Christian viewpoint, the Bible only accounts for an overview of God's activities. He does much that has never been recorded and is much more complex a being than we can fully fathom. Any believer who thinks he's got a firm handle on the full character of God is mistaken, or in the case of wackos like the Hillsboro Baptist Church folk, completely deluded. I don't think that means we can't know Him to some degree (I'm a Christian), but it does mean that I have to accept that some things are going to happen that I can't begin to explain or understand. I've studied evolutionary theories and Creation theories (can't say I'm a world-class authority, but I have studied), and the case for Creation (likely through a guided evolutionary process) seems most likely to me.
Logged

"They tap dance not, neither do they fart." --Greensleeves, on the Fig Men of the Imagination, in "Twice Upon a Time."
dean
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 267
Posts: 3635



« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2010, 09:57:35 AM »


Indy makes a good point about this. As to the similarity of other cultures' creation legends, one thing to remember is that the first chapters of Genesis are the only ones not written by an eye witness. Moses was raised in the most advanced culture of his day and educated in the royal school of Egypt. When he was assembling/writing the creation story, he had to rely on verbal histories and written fragments. Since he was a Hebrew, it's pretty natural that he "slanted" the creation story to feature the Hebrews' role through history. This, to me, leaves a lot of room for a Creation story that uses whatever means God so chooses to make the universe, be it a straightforward *POOF* or a gradual evolutionary process. If God is capable of creating the universe at all, then He is capable of doing it through multiple means.


Whilst an interesting point, and certainly a perfectly adequate and reasonable one, I guess I'm just a pretty straight down the line kind of guy.  If Moses/whoever was writing a creation story/any story and was slanting things a certain way then it makes me question what else was changed, and as such it leaves much too much open to misinterpretation, and inevitably, inaccuracies, which certainly dilutes my faith to enough of a degree to not sign up for a particular branch of faith.  And if I can't pin one down enough to have faith in, well then I won't worry about any of them.

The perfect example is Indy's: if Jesus rose from the dead and we take that as proof of the existence of God, well what if He didn't, and it was just a story that was changed to suit the audience.  It certainly wouldn't be the first time, nor the last time, that somebody embellished the truth for the sake of a good story, no matter how noble the purpose.

Yes believing the story is a matter of faith, and my criticism shouldn't be taken as an attack on anyone here who has it, and this certainly doesn't mean I am without faith, there is much too much in this world that I will never understand, I just don't believe in institutionalised religion for this reason, however ill-thought out it may be. 

Have at it as you will by all means though, I won't stop you!   Cheers

And yes, my answer is still 'don't know' since unless Science or God decides to step in and solve all the issues for us.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 10:05:19 AM by dean » Logged

------------The password will be: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Rev. Powell
Global Moderator
B-Movie Kraken
****

Karma: 3100
Posts: 26772


Click on that globe for 366 Weird Movies


WWW
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2010, 11:38:08 AM »

I think if there is a God, it's nothing like the religions think It is.

It would be far to great a concept for anyone to understand. Its why I'm always slighty baffled when I see religious people who claim to how it works. And then they say, "The Lord works in mysterious ways", which is just another way of saying, we don't have a clue.


I agree with that.  I'm not sure whether there's a God or not, but if there is I'm pretty damn certain that the people who claim to speak for Him are overstepping their authority.
Logged

I'll take you places the hand of man has not yet set foot...
Flick James
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 489
Posts: 4642


Honorary Bastard of Arts


« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2010, 11:50:02 AM »

I don't see how this thread could lead to anything other than a religious debate or an attempt by someone to convert or sway, but I'll play along.

I am a deist, at least essentially. I'm not going to go into a big description of what that means. If you're interested in what deism is, you can simply go to deism.com and I will assert that my beliefs are in line with about 90% of everything there. Some deists have an intense disdain for religion and revealed faith. I do share that disdain but it tends to be less intense.
Logged

I don't always talk about bad movies, but when I do, I prefer badmovies.org
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Let's Wax Philosophical . . . « previous next »
    Jump to:  


    RSS Feed Subscribe Subscribe by RSS
    Email Subscribe Subscribe by Email


    Popular Articles
    How To Find A Bad Movie

    The Champions of Justice

    Plan 9 from Outer Space

    Manos, The Hands of Fate

    Podcast: Todd the Convenience Store Clerk

    Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!

    Dragonball: The Magic Begins

    Cool As Ice

    The Educational Archives: Driver's Ed

    Godzilla vs. Monster Zero

    Do you have a zombie plan?

    FROM THE BADMOVIES.ORG ARCHIVES
    ImageThe Giant Claw - Slime drop

    Earth is visited by a GIANT ANTIMATTER SPACE BUZZARD! Gawk at the amazingly bad bird puppet, or chuckle over the silly dialog. This is one of the greatest b-movies ever made.

    Lesson Learned:
    • Osmosis: os·mo·sis (oz-mo'sis, os-) n., 1. When a bird eats something.

    Subscribe to Badmovies.org and get updates by email:

    HOME B-Movie Reviews Reader Reviews Forum Interviews TV Shows Advertising Information Sideshows Links Contact

    Badmovies.org is owned and operated by Andrew Borntreger. All original content is © 1998 - 2014 by its respective author(s). Image, video, and audio files are used in accordance with the Fair Use Law, and are property of the film copyright holders. You may freely link to any page (.html or .php) on this website, but reproduction in any other form must be authorized by the copyright holder.