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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Politicians Really Annoy Me! « previous next »
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Author Topic: Politicians Really Annoy Me!  (Read 4884 times)
HappyGilmore
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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 09:37:41 PM »

Personally I lie within the Libertarian Party of the United States.  I have nothing against anyone who's a Democrat or Republican, but I can't see myself siding with them on many issues.  Not saying that all Libertarians are perfect or that the others are all wrong, it's just not where I lie on a personal level.  The fact more people aren't with the party is baffling though.  But I'm new to this area so I can't debate all that well right now.
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« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2011, 10:11:25 AM »

"No one has the right to impose their beliefs on another person."?

Doesn't that pretty much do away with all law, then?  What is law but the collective belief of a majority of society that certain acts are wrong - wrong enough that they should be declared illegal?

I'm not sure I buy the argument.

There is a strange paradox in the pro-choice/pro-life debate that I don't many people take into account. The problem doesn't really rest with the "where does life begin" issue. The real issue is that the law has NEVER considered human life to begin until birth, and this is true across most countries of or influenced greatly by Western culture. Why? Because the legal system bases it's opinion of where life begins on 200+-year-old science. Humanity simply could not see human life at all before birth, and so human life was simply non-existent. This is understandable. You can't give legal protection to that which you can't see.

The paradox comes in when you look at the traditional definitions of conservative vs liberal, as defined in the U.S., not Australia. I've stated earlier that it amuses me that liberal would have an almost reverse definition to that applied to the word in this country, which is exactly why I NEVER define myself thusly. The paradox is that conservatives are actually the ones trying to change the legal definition of where life begins, which has always been at birth rather than conception, while liberals, whether they know it or not, are actually trying to hold on to that definition.

A further paradox is that liberals (again, as typically identified in the US, not Australia), who would typically claim to favor science over faith, refuse to acknowledge that science actually supports pro-life in that it pretty clearly identifies where life begins, which is actually before the heart starts beating. So, you have liberals trying to defend a position that rests on old legal definitions created by WASPs, and conservatives trying to defend a position that the law does NOT support, but that science does. It's a very confusing debate to me, and paradoxical on it's very foundation.

I'm not taking a position either way in the legal debate here, ladies and gentlemen, just providing a bit of social commentary of my own. Personally I go with the scientific identification of where a human life begins. The legal definition of life begins when a birth certificate is issued, and so until that definition is changes, the unborn have no legal protection.
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Umaril The Unfeathered
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« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2011, 11:22:35 AM »

"No one has the right to impose their beliefs on another person."?

Doesn't that pretty much do away with all law, then?  What is law but the collective belief of a majority of society that certain acts are wrong - wrong enough that they should be declared illegal?

I'm not sure I buy the argument.

There is a strange paradox in the pro-choice/pro-life debate that I don't many people take into account. The problem doesn't really rest with the "where does life begin" issue. The real issue is that the law has NEVER considered human life to begin until birth, and this is true across most countries of or influenced greatly by Western culture. Why? Because the legal system bases it's opinion of where life begins on 200+-year-old science. Humanity simply could not see human life at all before birth, and so human life was simply non-existent. This is understandable. You can't give legal protection to that which you can't see.

The paradox comes in when you look at the traditional definitions of conservative vs liberal, as defined in the U.S., not Australia. I've stated earlier that it amuses me that liberal would have an almost reverse definition to that applied to the word in this country, which is exactly why I NEVER define myself thusly. The paradox is that conservatives are actually the ones trying to change the legal definition of where life begins, which has always been at birth rather than conception, while liberals, whether they know it or not, are actually trying to hold on to that definition.

A further paradox is that liberals (again, as typically identified in the US, not Australia), who would typically claim to favor science over faith, refuse to acknowledge that science actually supports pro-life in that it pretty clearly identifies where life begins, which is actually before the heart starts beating. So, you have liberals trying to defend a position that rests on old legal definitions created by WASPs, and conservatives trying to defend a position that the law does NOT support, but that science does. It's a very confusing debate to me, and paradoxical on it's very foundation.

I'm not taking a position either way in the legal debate here, ladies and gentlemen, just providing a bit of social commentary of my own. Personally I go with the scientific identification of where a human life begins. The legal definition of life begins when a birth certificate is issued, and so until that definition is changes, the unborn have no legal protection.

An interesting take on the issue, to be sure.. 

My personal feeling is that IF an abortion is for a valid reason (birth defects\disease, or complications threatening the life of the mother) then the decision has some merit. Naturally, a mother would prefer to live, and I can't fault that.

However, just to wipe the slate clean of "the night before" or to use it to spite someone,  or any other decision based on personal whim, or pressure from another person, seems a bit unjust.  In the end, the only one who gets hurt is the child.

Ultimately, the woman herself must live with the weight of her decision.  And, I would suspect that there are some women who wind up regretting the decision, who spend the rest of their lives wondering "what might have been." So, while some women may seem comfortable about their decision to end a life, we really don't know their true feelings, given that motherhood (and the choice to end a life growing inside of her) is such a strong bond.

Aside from the emotional impact, there must also be some psycholgical impact as well.

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« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2011, 11:38:40 AM »

Small | Large
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Hammock Rider
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« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2011, 01:51:00 PM »

I'll express my opinion through the use of this near classic 1960's cartoon.

Small | Large
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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2011, 05:41:48 AM »


Flick, just to help your definitions a little, it's the Liberal party here, capital L.  So if you're a liberal scumbag, it is somewhat different than being a Liberal scumbag.   Thumbup

Either way we can agree they're all scumbags!

As to the abortion issue, this is probably not the thread for it. 
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AndyC
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« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2011, 07:50:52 AM »

We've finally got a federal election declared here, although you'd never know the difference, what with campaign ads running constantly anyway, just in case. In Canada, the two major parties, Conservative and Liberal, regardless of what they say, have become pretty much interchangeable in terms of what they do. Both stick pretty close to the middle ground when you get right down to it, although the party in opposition will always condemn the decisions of the party in power, as though they'd have done it differently.

We have other parties who stick closer to certain ideals, which I admire, but I find they can be too focused on certain issues, not flexible enough in their thinking, and lacking the ability to form a functioning government if they suddenly found themselves in that position.

This time around, I'm hoping for a Conservative majority, mainly because they're doing a reasonably good job, I don't particularly think a change of government is a smart idea right now, and I would like to see a government securely installed for a change. Canada's had nothing but minority governments for most of a decade, and it's kept all of the parties in perpetual campaign mode, in case somebody calls or forces an election. I don't know how much effort the parties waste on maintaining a state of election readiness, or on constantly judging whether an election would be to their advantage, but I imagine it is significant, and it's effort I'd rather our elected officials put into doing their jobs.
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« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2011, 09:33:06 AM »

Quote
We've finally got a federal election declared here, although you'd never know the difference, what with campaign ads running constantly anyway, just in case. In Canada, the two major parties, Conservative and Liberal, regardless of what they say, have become pretty much interchangeable in terms of what they do. Both stick pretty close to the middle ground when you get right down to it, although the party in opposition will always condemn the decisions of the party in power, as though they'd have done it differently.

 BounceGiggle

That's hilarious. That's how it is here with the Republicans and Democrats. I've been saying it all along, but people think I'm nuts, they're just two sides of the same damn coin.
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