GHOSTS

[ER]

Not to be an advocate for Christianity, Flick, but when the "Jesus looked different" account was brought up in the Catholic school I attended, the explanation offered was that what people saw that day was a glorified resurrected body, which was greatly different from the physical bodies seen in this world. Jesus was supposedly in the immortal form that will be assumed on the day of resurrection when the saved rise from their graves on judgement day. Or so they told us....

[Flick James]

Not to be an advocate for Christianity, Flick, but when the "Jesus looked different" account was brought up in the Catholic school I attended, the explanation offered was that what people saw that day was a glorified resurrected body, which was greatly different from the physical bodies seen in this world. Jesus was supposedly in the immortal form that will be assumed on the day of resurrection when the saved rise from their graves on judgement day. Or so they told us....

Maybe. Or maybe it was a completely different person altogether. As blasphemous as that may be to say, it is, at the very least, just as likely. The issue with religious faith is that the notion of it being a resurrected Jesus has to be "explained" and justified through faith. Faith is the only thing that will make it work.

Like I said, that's fine. I never begrudge anybody their faith. When biblical scholars try to defend these beliefs via historical evidence is when it can't be supported. I'm sorry. That's not my fault. But it can't. Yet I see people of faith constantly trying to do it, and they appear foolish when they do. I'm the type of person that is always going to look for alternate explanantions that can be supported by the laws of nature. It's just the deist in me that respects the laws of nature so much that they are enough for me. A resurrected body is not supported by those laws, laws that are "God-made" if you will. So since I respect the natural laws of God, I cannot accept that which is not supported by it, that is, until it can be seen, observed, and justified. Don't get me wrong, I have some esoteric views of the universe that I cannot prove, but I'm also not trying to base a religion and claiming revelation either, so I think I'm in the clear. "Revelation" is something that I view with skepticism and scrutiny. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. For some reason, people who embrace religious doctrine seem to think they are above that.

[alandhopewell]

UFO's

I wouldn't put ghosts and UFOs in the same category.

     There are many who believe that all paranormal activity arises from a common, extra-dimensional source; I recommend the works of Jaques Vallee.

     I agree with his premise, but believe that the source is demonic, with the purpose of decieving man about his own nature, and the nature of God.

The problem I have with this is that it attempts to wrap all of existence into a neat little package that doesn't really make much sense to me. I've also heard it said that dinosaurs were actually demons from before the great flood. The problem I have with things like this is that it seems to be the way things from nature that contradict the Bible are justified to make sure that the notion of it being "the Word of God" stays intact. Dinosaurs were living, breathing things that existed long before us. If the Bible is the word of God and explains the origin of everything, as it is said to be, it seems strange to me that dinosaurs wouldn't have been mentioned. Perhaps I'm taking Genesis too literally, but I'm sorry, before science stepped in and started providing so much information that contradicted the Creation story, everybody accepted that it was the way the world came into being. Now, of course, we can't take it literally, we have to bend nature to adhere to it and that's how you get things like fundamentalists saying that dinosaurs were demons that God wiped out with the flood.

I don't have any problem with faith. I have faith of my own. It just irks me when people try to force nature, be it natural or "paranormal," or whatever phrase one wants to use, to make it adhere to a religious doctrine. I haven't seen anything in my life that leads me to believe that Christians have any insight into man's "nature."

People embellish and exaggerate their experiences, and Christians are no different in my experience, yet I am supposed to take their interpretation of unexplained events more seriously for some reason. I was once a Christian.

I'll tell a story that I've told before. When I was a teenager, I went on a church youth retreat to the mountains. I believed in Christian doctrine and considered myself "born again." At that retreat, something happened that I will never forget, and will forever shade my views of religion.

One night, during an evening gathering, one teenage girl that was a member of the church started convulsing and talking in strange voices and having semi-violent outbursts. I knew her and knew that she was bit of a rebellious teenager. Anyway, the church pastors running the retreat interpreted that she was under demonic possession. She was taken to the girls area, and the rest of us boys went to our bunking area and proceeded to pray. It was a very, very dramatic scene. I was scared and also a little confused over the events. We were being told that the pastors were keeping her secluded and were attempting an “exorcism” of sorts, and that they eventually succeeded and the girl was back to normal. The next day, of course, everybody was fascinated with her and she was the center of attention. Everybody praised God and it was seen as a victory over Satan, etc. I was very uneasy about the situation.

Years later, in my early twenties, I ran into her at a restaurant. We sat down and spent almost an entire day catching up, since we hadn’t seen each other in some time. During that conversation, I found out that she too was no longer attending that church, and I asked about that incident. She admitted to me that she had faked the whole thing. She said she was just young and immature and wanted attention. She wasn’t really meaning to make fun of anything or make fools out of anybody, and she was very embarassed about her behavior and also carries a little guilt about it. I asked her if she still believes that everybody that was involved still thinks to this day that she was really possessed and that the event was supernatural. She felt, as did I, that this was probably true. That the pastors and those involved that night, and probably to this day even, believe that a teenage girl was possessed by a demon, and that they drove the demon out with the assistance of God. I have no doubt that this story was talked about many times.

I told her that if she felt bad about it, she might want to consider tracking down those pastors and coming clean about it. That event will always haunt me as to how human beings can be. Since then I don’t really take Christians interpretations of the supernatural any more or less seriously than I do anybody else. It’s also exactly why I am skeptical of the “miracles” told in religious texts. Given that experience and how people are, why should I take the “miracles” of ancient religion seriously? Is it because somebody from thousands of years ago took the time to write it down on a piece of papyrus?

I’m not trying to derail the thread that appears to be an entertaining poll, but part of me thinks there was an agenda from the start.

     Actually, I agree with a lot of what you've said, for the same reason-people try to "interpert" the Scriptures, to make them fit their own agenda.

     BTW, the Bible does mention dinosaurs...if you read the descriptions of Leviathan and Behemoth,  it's plain that what's being described are saurians, and not an elephant and a hippo, as some claim.

     I take no offence. My agenda, if you will, is simply this....I have something which causes me to believe that my eternity is gonna be fantastic, and I want to share that with others.l SHARE, not force upon, dominate, or shout down; I can't make anyone believe anything, nor is that my job.

     Dinosaurs were demons that God wiped out with the Flood? I've never heard that one, the demon part, at least.

[HappyGilmore]

Wholeheartedly believe there's somethng to it than just 'imagination'.  I've experienced too much unexplainable phenomena in my lifetime to just chalk it to my innate ability to "imagine."

[dean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irtr0d4Wamk
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Not a ghost video, but it'll bury inside your brain and unsettle you if you let it.

If you click through, this person has uploaded a heap of creepy videos involving humanoid creatures and the like.  Kinda off topic from the original post but figure if there's a place to put creepy videos its here!