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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  So what do you think? Double Standard or just more conservative whining? (PT) « previous next »
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Author Topic: So what do you think? Double Standard or just more conservative whining? (PT)  (Read 5882 times)
Frank81
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« Reply #105 on: March 22, 2012, 07:56:48 AM »

I was talking to the man at the pharmacy about this acctually. We were talking about how here in Australia, Centerlink orgasination, to pay for the un-employed, students, and dissabled) has a health card for anyone on cente(a government rlink so they can pay for medication they need at a lower price, (as the centerlink fortnightly payment is $200 - $500 for those on job seeker allowence, not enought for medication and other things) All Priscription medication is a lot cheaper than normal. I was on centerlink for a bit and noticed that all my Prescription medication was cheaper, exsept for birth control.

The point I said to the pharmacist was, if someone who obviously is not in a stabble financial situation to have children and is doing the responsible thing by taking birth control, why does the government not see helping pay for birth control will be a lot less money, compared to helping with food staps and what not for an unplanned child. It seems like the smart thing to do, for the parent(s) child and the government, is avoid this situations. Because a child does not just go away. Or is easy to deal with.

I sorta find it odd that birth control costs that much, but I don't know if she was put on a special type due to other issues she has.

Either way this guy who said she should make sex tapes to pay for birth control, is an idiot. People do not just have sex to make a life, and to him if it is that or the polar opposite off staring in porn, he needs his head checked.

Living Dead Girl, BTW, You get that  from the Rob Zombie song? Anyway, I agree, birth  control is  cheaper than the costs  of a baby, but, isn't self control and not govt control the cheapest  of all?  I mean if one wants  Govt to stay out of her uterus as  I saw a  T-Shirt once, then , what the hell is the Govt., Senate, let alone a  guy a radio,  commenting on it and why does this independent  person  need all these people if they truly want Govt. off their bodies? I'm no defender of Limbaugh or anyone else, but, the point he was making, albeit a bit crudely, if you want cash for your sexual activities, why not just make tapes of it and sell it? I want Govt. to do the least it can for me, just watch the borders, pay the cops, pave the roads, bomb the enemy, and stay the F#@k out of my life.

Yes it was from the rob Zombie song! And also because a living dead girl or person in general is a common theme for "Bad Movies" So yeah off course I was gonna choose that name xD

Self control is the cheapest off all is true with most things, like weight or other health concerns, But Quite honestly these are different times, people no longer wait till marriage and only have sex in order to have children,

I fail to see what the govt in america honestly exspects? It's not like everyone on birth control is Premiscous or whatever anyways, what if you live with your partner? What really made me angery about this dude saying "Make sex tapes to pay for birth control or just don't" is you have to wait till marriage (even if thats not what you believe in) or the polar opposite ! That is just the most disrespectfull thing against women I have heard. And the logic is so dumb I can not even begin to rant. And very un-realistic! Honestly what does the Govt exsepct?? Seriously? I understand the money side off it. yes it is exspensive But It seriously is not just people who sleep around who take it.

But I do admit I am surprised it costs $3000 a year, Considering Any kind off healthcare over here is Rarely that exspensive. (Medicare is a big part off that) I know some medication over there costs $700 a bottle. Here I can buy a months worth off all my regular stuff, and it may be $250 or less, Birth control will make that cost more, and I just found that odd. Not having an unwanted child is a health concern aswell. And I live with my boyfriend, We are not in a good place money wise. I think we are being smart about it, even if it does mean taking money out our small budget to avoid being over our heads with a human life that does not just go away.

Seriously thought this guy saying "make sex tapes to pay for it or just don't have sex!" Is to me very stupid (Yes I get the money part, his logic and way off thinking on the matter is just ... way below average.) Seriously? I honestly think he has something metally wrong with him, I am not trying to insult him. Maybe he should get help and then see how hard it is to pay for some medications. And best off all GET HELP!!! =/


OK, I’ve actually  met and done some work with ‘Zombie’ and his wife years ago, true  ‘horror  movie’ fans.  TeddyR

I agree people  are more impulsive and barriers  have dropped  in our secular Western society, but, if  one wants  truly to be independent, you can’t have  Govt. be your  Mommy and Daddy and then demand they  stay out of your life?

I find it highly disrespectful to men and women that  this woman has set herself up as  some authority  with her media and political allies that  ‘respect’ for women should be  paid for from someone  else rather than the adults  engaged in any  behavior. Seriously, where are  the calls  for Men to take  birth control seriously and why  aren’t these  direct participants  required  by law to  pay and take  responsibility, now, there’s your disrespect  to women.

This  goes way beyond  Limbo, Maher and any other dude  on radio, TV, or Congress. I’m a  single  adult and  certainly  sexually  active, never  once have  I asked anyone  for money for condoms or anything else  related  to my sexual  behavior due to the fact  that it’s  none of their  freak’n business and I want it to stay  that way.
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Flick James
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« Reply #106 on: March 22, 2012, 09:25:24 AM »

Quote
Wow.  Way to marginalize several million people.

And I do it well. Marginalization is how I get through my day, sir.

Millions upon millions of people need somebody whom they can quote, and provide their opinions for them. Bill Maher provides that service for many on the left, Rush has done it for many on the right for over 20 years. So if I’m marginalizing several million people, I take that as a compliment. f**k ‘em. They’ve got Fox and Hannity and plenty of other sources to do their thinking for them.

I happen to find Bill Maher’s show amusing to some degree, and find I agree with certain portions of his viewpoints, just as I agreed with certain aspects of Rush’s positions back when I listened to him in 1990, especially when he was being earnest and not trying to be a comedian, because he’s not very good at it. I do this moronic thing called THINKING, and because I don’t require the existence of Rush or Bill to provide my quips and thoughts for the day, I don’t mourn the loss of either. I live my life, when I'm not marginalizing large sections of society that is.

 TeddyR
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ulthar
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« Reply #107 on: March 22, 2012, 09:28:34 AM »


Kind of off topic, but it's been my experience that highly professional and educated does not always translate to having common sense.



True.  But highly educated and professional people are rarely lazy and non-thinking sheep, which was the claim about Limbaugh's audience.
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ulthar
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« Reply #108 on: March 22, 2012, 09:45:29 AM »


Millions upon millions of people need somebody whom they can quote, and provide their opinions for them. ... They’ve got Fox and Hannity and plenty of other sources to do their thinking for them.


This is the part I find offensive.

NO ONE does my thinking FOR me...no one provides my opinions for me.  And that is true for a healthy dose of Limbaugh's audience as well.  I don't know about Maher's callers...I've never listened to his show, but I'll bet money the same applies there.

It's a chicken and egg kind of question.  I have my thoughts and opinions about things BEFORE I hear Limbaugh utter a word.  As, I am sure, you do before you tune into Maher.  From the comments his callers make, this is certainly true of Limbaugh's listeners/callers.

It's entirely playing into the stereotype of what prompted Indy to start this thread your saying this.  You assume because someone listens to Rush, Hannity or Fox News that they are being told what to think and buying it hook, line and sinker.  It's the "they are too stupid to think for themselves" line, and

It is pure crap.

I think a whole bunch of left-media-loving people don't want to admit that INTELLIGENT, reasoning people disagree with them.  It's easy to put down the opposing viewpoint rather than, eh hem, THINK about it and debate it on fair, respectful terms.

This is the ENTIRE point of this thread.  The left media gets to say whatever they want, to denigrate and insult the opposite view (oddly enough while also falsely claiming the mantle of open mindedness and tolerance) and indeed the very intelligence of other people JUST because they disagree on policy or the nature of government.

In the leftist media, anyone on the right is a bad guy, too stupid to be allowed to live.  And before we get shouts of "hyperbole," I took a gander of about a half dozen web sites last night where that exact kind of claim was made.

No, not that Limbaugh himself should not be allowed to live, but that his listeners not be allowed to live.

So, you tell me, where is the hate coming from?  I've NEVER heard a conservative in person or on the air say someone with a liberal viewpoint should be killed, on that the basis of their liberal ideology or any other reason.

And, for the record, "we" are likewise not the ones  sitting around claiming that Maher's or similar audiences are too stupid or lazy to think for themselves.  I've known extremely intelligent leftists/liberals/people that disagree with me.

Yes, AHD.  What passes for objectivity and the claim of "unbias" in contemporary America does in fact make me interject "WOW."   Thumbup
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 09:53:09 AM by ulthar » Logged

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« Reply #109 on: March 22, 2012, 10:06:31 AM »

You're taking it kinda personal, ulthar. People tend to get offended when a comment identifies them in some way. I have to assume, based on your comments, that Rush represents you to some degree. I've known quite a few ditto-heads in my day, and just the euphemism "ditto-head" alone represents the profile quite well. Most of them practically lived their lives by the Word of Rush. Now, if that profile does not apply to you, then you really shouldn't be getting offended.
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ulthar
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« Reply #110 on: March 22, 2012, 10:43:35 AM »


You're taking it kinda personal, ulthar. People tend to get offended when a comment identifies them in some way. I have to assume, based on your comments, that Rush represents you to some degree. I've known quite a few ditto-heads in my day, and just the euphemism "ditto-head" alone represents the profile quite well. Most of them practically lived their lives by the Word of Rush. Now, if that profile does not apply to you, then you really shouldn't be getting offended.


I'm not really taking it any more personally any other time someone basically calls me stupid with no basis for that claim.  I may well in fact BE stupid, but let me PROVE it first!

You may not know what the phrase "Ditto Head" means.

It has nothing to do with liking Rush or agreeing with him.

In the first few years of his show, his callers would expend precious (to him, apparently) air time by saying the same 'greeting" which was "love the show, listen every day."  Even staunch liberals who called in to to disagree with him would say this.  So, he asked people to just say "ditto" to save time.  I've heard other radio hosts, even regular morning jocks do similar things to save air time.

With Rush, it stuck as a "label" for his listeners.

On to this:

"People tend to get offended when a comment identifies them in some way. I have to assume, based on your comments, that Rush represents you to some degree."

I've already explained this several times.

Rush DOES represent his listeners to some degree.  The degree is exactly this: he says ON THE NATIONAL MEDIA STAGE what they would say if THEY had the microphone and (here's the important part)

They were not hearing elsewhere.

Specifically, the things he says that apply to this are (a) that government is too big, (b) taxes are already too high and (c) government is too intrusive in daily lives of people who just want to be left alone to earn their living.

This message is absolutely NOT said on the other major media outlets, not now and emphatically not in the late 80's when Rush became nationally syndicated.

So, to this point, we agree.  Rush represents, is a figurehead if you will,  a fiscally conservative viewpoint in the national media.  I don't need Rush to speak for me when I'm talking to you or to a person here.  I do LIKE having Rush speak "for me" in the national media.

Where the "insult" comes in is that you assume that I (I as a metaphor here for the Rush listener...I'm not a regular Rush listener, but when I do listen, I find I agree with a good bit of what he and his callers say on these policy matters) am a blank slate until I tune in and get told what to think.

That's exactly backwards, and the point you seem to be missing.  People initially liked Rush because they hold a world view that is NOT being given ANY credit whatsoever on the national media stage by anyone else.  In fact, they are told daily in other media that their world view is stupid or at least "wrong."

You say you would not miss either Rush or Maher if they disappeared.  Fine.  There are two reasons your position on this is different than those of the Rush listener:

(1) If Maher disappeared it would not matter to the voice on the national stage; Chris Matthews, Katie Couric, Barbara Walters, Peter Jennings (RIP), Tom Brokaw, Dan Rather, Larry King, Jack Krugman and any number of other nationally known "voices" are heard daily that say the same thing.

You'd be lost nothing if Maher disappeared.  Your message (rhetorical you, you = Maher "fan") is still out there.

(2) Not true for the Rush fan of old.  In the early days, if Rush was indeed silenced (as many called for then and many still do), that's it for that "side" of the discussion.

Now, what happens in this kind of situation is that when people are inundated with opposing views all the time, they feel isolated.  Another common theme among Conservative Talk listeners is "I thought I was alone in thinking this."

What is the "this" they are usually talking about?

My three points given above:  government is too big, taxes are too high, and the government, as a bureaucratic entity, is too intrusive.

It's not that people want to be told what to think...it's not that they cannot think or are too lazy to figure it out for themselves.  It's that they HAVE figured it out for themselves but are constantly put down and insulted for thinking that.  They are told that what they have figured out is invalid (or worse).

The real weakness is that these same people just give too much power to the media.  On the one hand, I don't give a rats behind if I AM the only person in the country that thinks the government is too big.  But for many, those that do cling to Rush, Hannity and others, they want that safety in numbers and to know that it's not 1984 and they are being lined up for re-education camp.

The margins in the elections show, no matter who wins, that the country rather evenly divided (has it always been so?  are true landslides rare?)  But to listen/read to the national media, the half that "I belong to" does not exist, beyond being too stupid for my own good.

Geez, they seem to be asking, why can't that guy just get his mind right and vote "Left."

(I'm purposefully avoiding Rep. and Dem. here, because I don't think for a minute the present crop of Republicans in general represent my fiscal conservativeness....)
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Flick James
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« Reply #111 on: March 22, 2012, 11:32:41 AM »

Oh, good grief, ulthar.

You ARE taking it personal, because at no point did I call you “stupid.” I will never understand the mentality of getting offended because somebody made fun of a celebrity that someone likes. You’re being entirely too sensitive.

I used to listen to Rush in the early 90’s. I know exactly what “ditto-head” means. I understand that it is intended to save time, but while there may be some exceptions, it essentially is an expression used by his adoring fans and most definitely reflects his “core” audience. And by the way, when I listened to his show before I grew tired of it, I considered myself a bit of a fan who also thought for himself, and I made fun of the ditto-head aspect of his show back then. “Ditto-head” decidedly defines his core audience, even if there is a portion of his fans that are less defined by it than others. I don’t see how you can possibly dispute that.

As for Bill Maher, he is a lefty, but is also a comedian, and a pretty good one at times. I watch his show on occasion because it entertains me. The big difference between Maher and Limbaugh, other than political differences, is that Maher makes some jokes that are universally funny, while Limbaugh’s so-called parodies are usually funny only to ditto-heads. I’ve heard him make claims before that others steal bits from him. If that were true, and I don’t doubt that it may sometimes be, the stolen bits are usually funnier done by somebody else because he simply is not a gifted comic. When I listened to him, I used to hate it when he tried to parody. I always preferred it when he stuck to serious commentary, something he IS gifted at.

It amuses me the claim that the “liberal media” (complete with devil horns and cloven hooves) can get away with anything while right-leaning commentators are so victimized. The fact that Rush has done what he has done for as long as he has done it, and so successfully, and ushered in a market for many others that followed him, pretty much negates that claim.

I’m sorry, but I just find the gripe from the right about not being fairly represented both annoying and amusing. I’m sorry if it offends you, but I don’t really distinguish it from the whining of any “victimized” group.
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ulthar
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« Reply #112 on: March 22, 2012, 11:59:26 AM »


Oh, good grief, ulthar.


Right back atcha, Br'er Debater.

Quote

You ARE taking it personal, because at no point did I call you “stupid.”


You said (several times in several posts) that people who listen to Rush (or conservative media in general) cannot think for themselves and are mentally lazy....synonyms for stupidity.

Quote

 I will never understand the mentality of getting offended because somebody made fun of a celebrity that someone likes.


Not what I'm doing at all...you can make fun of Rush all you want....more power to you.

But that's not what you did.  You said some mighty ugly comments about his listeners, and those of Hannity and viewers of Fox News.  I believe "fu%$ 'em" was one such comment.

Nowhere in any of my posts have I defended Rush himself; the resentment I am feeling based on your comments is the insinuation that if I choose to listen to conservative "Entertainment" (I won't call it news), I'm mentally lazy and cannot, or do not, think for myself.  And that a friend would essentially say "f you" to me because of the radio/tv programming have chosen to listen to in the past.

You explicitly stated that Rush listeners tune in to get their opinions told to them.

THAT is the kind of "anti-Conservative" bias that was the basis of this thread.


Quote

It amuses me the claim that the “liberal media” (complete with devil horns and cloven hooves) can get away with anything while right-leaning commentators are so victimized. The fact that Rush has done what he has done for as long as he has done it, and so successfully, and ushered in a market for many others that followed him, pretty much negates that claim.


Name me five instances in the last 20 years where a representative in the federal government has claimed that Bill Maher, CNN, MSNBC, The View (??, hell, I don't even know what they talk about .... just throwing it out there) or other "mainstream media" source should be removed from the air.

Ooops, there I go again, asking for facts.

Quote

I’m sorry, but I just find the gripe from the right about not being fairly represented both annoying and amusing. I’m sorry if it offends you, but I don’t really distinguish it from the whining of any “victimized” group.


Walk a day in my shoes....see it from my perspective.  That's all I'd ask.

You don't see the bias, and indeed the vitriol that exists, because it's not aimed at YOU.

It's easy to get all up in arms over something Rush says, like calling a woman a slut, but at the same time ignoring the 100 other things said every day because they are acceptable to you...you in part agree with what's said.

Indy asked the question initially why Bill Maher can get away with calling Palin a c*&t, but Rush gets slammed for calling some woman a slut.  That question still stands unanswered.

What we've had is a big discussion about what's right or wrong with Rush, his show or his listeners.

And this is exactly Indy's and my point.  The bias is real and is evidenced by the fact that it's not even acknowledged by half the population.

So, is it or is it not acceptable to you that Bill Maher called Sarah Palin a "c&^t"?  If so, follow-up.  Is it okay that Rush called a woman a slut?  If not, follow-up.  What's the difference; why is one acceptable and the other not?

Anyone can answer this.
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Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

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Flick James
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« Reply #113 on: March 22, 2012, 12:50:02 PM »

ulthar,

So, I'm supposed to stop and walk in the shoes of anybody with whom I disagree with? That is an impossibility. Look, I'm going to make an observation, and that observation is sometimes going to ruffle some feathers. If you can't see that I am talking about a certain set of people, that you may not necessarily fit in with on all aspect, then I don't know what to tell you. You underestimate me. I CAN see the bias. Bias is all over the place, my friend. Get over it. I am a Ron Paul supporter and I see plenty of people calling him a kook and that his supporters are kooks and that he is dangerous to America. I don't get offended. I have better things to do with my time that to get offended by it. So do you.
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alandhopewell
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« Reply #114 on: March 22, 2012, 12:59:51 PM »

You're taking it kinda personal, ulthar. People tend to get offended when a comment identifies them in some way. I have to assume, based on your comments, that Rush represents you to some degree. I've known quite a few ditto-heads in my day, and just the euphemism "ditto-head" alone represents the profile quite well. Most of them practically lived their lives by the Word of Rush. Now, if that profile does not apply to you, then you really shouldn't be getting offended.

     I think what offended him was the ad hoc assumption that people of a certain political stripe are incapable of thinking for themselves. I, too, hear this often from liberals, and I also find it offensive.

     I don't listen to Rush; these days, I generally don't listen to Michael, Laura, Bill, Dennis, or any one of them. I count myself a conservative, of the moral variety, and my opinions are shaped by my faith....if they coincide with those of a pundit, BFHD. They are my opinions, and are not osmosed into my skull via the ray-did-eo.
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« Reply #115 on: March 22, 2012, 02:50:37 PM »

It would be kind of awesome if they fired ALL the pundits.
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« Reply #116 on: March 22, 2012, 05:15:02 PM »

Silence everybody?  That's what the Congress tried to do with the imposition of the "gag rule" on slavery.  It only made the issue more bitter and divisive, because Congress COULDN'T talk about it.


Personally, I am enjoying this whole back and forth immensely and am glad I started this thread - although I hope no one is taking it too personally.  It's a great discussion - by which, I mean, when I finish reading all the new posts, I feel a bit smarter than I was when I started, instead of more stupid.
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« Reply #117 on: March 22, 2012, 07:00:28 PM »

The fact that theres SO many political shows and websites and so forth indicates I think that the government has gotten too big, not in the conservative vs liberal sense but in the sense of it's role in society. At least with, say, monarchy you wouldn't have these blowhards who are all in the pocket of the corporations anyway. I know that's a cynical thing to say.

One of the worst things that happened in this country was when Stern left regular radio. that was the only show that made me laugh. All there is now are call in shows and pundit shows going over the same arguments again and again and it's depressing.

I'm not trying to stifle or look down upon political discourse though.
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Flick James
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« Reply #118 on: March 22, 2012, 08:01:51 PM »

Silence everybody?  That's what the Congress tried to do with the imposition of the "gag rule" on slavery.  It only made the issue more bitter and divisive, because Congress COULDN'T talk about it.


Personally, I am enjoying this whole back and forth immensely and am glad I started this thread - although I hope no one is taking it too personally.  It's a great discussion - by which, I mean, when I finish reading all the new posts, I feel a bit smarter than I was when I started, instead of more stupid.

I think ulthar and I agree on maybe more than we disagree on. I don't think ulthar gets me, however. He gets so wound up. 


And ulthar, can't you see that I'm yanking your chain a little? Yes, I do pretty much believe what I'm saying, but I'm also going with the whole "marginalization" angle and having a bit of fun with it. If you took it that I actually think you are stupid then you simply don't get my sense of humor at all.

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« Reply #119 on: March 22, 2012, 09:41:56 PM »

I've made this offer before, but let me repeat it for those who weren't there:
Proclaim me emperor of the entire planet, and I will solve ALL your problems.  Immediately!!!!
You have my word on it! TeddyR
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    Earth is visited by a GIANT ANTIMATTER SPACE BUZZARD! Gawk at the amazingly bad bird puppet, or chuckle over the silly dialog. This is one of the greatest b-movies ever made.

    Lesson Learned:
    • Osmosis: os·mo·sis (oz-mo'sis, os-) n., 1. When a bird eats something.

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