So what do you think? Double Standard or just more conservative whining? (PT)

[Frank81]

indiana

Don't get me wrong, BTW - while I am and remain adamantly opposed to abortion, I have no problem with contraception at all - my wife and I practiced it for years.

was the cost of it included in your health plan?

frank81

It's  like Carville and Mary Matalin denoucing each  others 'side' while laughing all the way to the bank. The OWS crowd denouncing the rich and 'racism' while being mostly from rich, 'white' familes  from Long Island and parts  elsewhere is also unimpressive to me.

I'ts the opposite of that. It's like Carville denouncing his own side rather than his wifes,  or OWS people denouncing the utopian beliefs of some of its members.

Carville  has criticised  his  'own'  side and Matalin has criticised  her side, as Woody Allen said in one of  his movies, it's a  sham   of a lie of a sham. I don't think OWS has any utopian ideas, it's same old communism that killed a hundred million last century, no thanks.

[lester1/2jr]

communism was a utopian idea.


Also, wasn't Maher kicked off ABC post 9/11?

[Frank81]

Actually, Obama's health plan largely defunds Medicare, while Rep. Paul Ryan's budget plan would save it!
The problem with Medicare is that, if unreformed, it is going to bloat up to such enormous size as the postwar "baby boomers" retire that, together with Social Security, it will by the end of the decade account for almost 100% of the government's tax revenues.  Not one single Democratic proposal makes any effort to address entitlements, other than to keep promising MORE free goodies to the elderly, the poor, and the ignorant so that they will keep voting Democratic.  Meanwhile, the segment of the population that actually PAYS taxes is projected to continue shrinking, and the budget deficit to continue growing.  Basically, as Margaret Thatcher said long ago, the problem with socialism is that eventually, you run out of other people's money.

The problem with the media starts in academia, another institution  in society  virtually run by the Left and far-Left. This is the reason honest debate has become a shouting match for decades in post-WW 2 industrial  societies from here to Europe, let alone the shooting wars  in South America, Asia and Africa. The scare tactics  work better  for the Left cause so-called  'conservatives'  have  been way too civil to them, not  too nasty. Limbaugh is  tame  and often too  concerned  with  himself, than  to really do any damage to those who have damaged  all of us in the end. I was on the Left in my youth and know they use all avenues and excuse all  players, including genocide to get to the position of power they have today. One does have to read between the lines, unfortunately, the lines are mostly controlled by one side and it's not mine.

[ulthar]

Now we have an even broader outlet, the internet, and it's made shows like Rush's less and less relevant.

...

This entire thread is a fine example of communication that was not previously possible. We're now arguing directly at a level that would not have been possible 20 years ago. No need for Limbaugh.

You make some very good points, but I wanted to mention something about Limbaugh's continuing relevance vs us having our voices via the 'Net at large.

"They" listen to Rush...they certainly (mis)quote him often enough.  Rush's name is mentioned in Congressional hearings and debate and soundbites having to do with serious issues far more than mine.  I don't hear Nancy Pelosi complaining about what ulthar on badmovies.org wrote on the issue of government sponsored birth control.

There are a BUNCH of people who continue to feel as though their voice is not heard, that they are marginalized.  Rush gives them a voice on the national stage.  THAT is why he remains popular (I don't think his popularity is in significant decline; he still leads the ratings anyway).

The problem with the 'Net is the noise.  For every 1 person saying something that makes sense or for every decent, civilized debate on a controversial topic, there are thousands upon thousands of sites pretty much dedicated to nothing short of either silencing the opponent and/or ridiculing any opposing viewpoint.

I posted one message on Democratic Underground several years ago and got my answer.  Someone had posted some vile, ugly things about "all conservatives."  I posted a very brief, very general description of myself that I thought at the time might illustrate to an intellectually honest person devoted to truth-seeking debate that the over-generalization made about conservatives was wrong on its face.

The reply to my post was "I don't care about any of that."  Nope, no debate, no discourse.  At a time when MoveOn.org and DemocraticUnderground were getting a lot of "pop press,"  even to the point of being elevated to 'mainstream' status, the goal was pure and simple: stifle any and all message that opposes our own.

That's what conservatives hear on the news every day.  Yes, liberals and conservatives listen to the same news sources and both claim bias.  I find this a farcical abomination to intellectual honesty.  There is no way on God's Blue/Green Earth ANYONE can claim that the broadcast networks and the cable network news shows give conservative and libertarian viewpoints a far shake.

And THAT is why Rush remains on the air, and intensely popular, after over 20 years.

Geez...look at how FOX News and Rush himself are so hated!  There are people/organizations that really believe both of these "new sources" should be banned from the air - SIMPLY because they disagree with the party line that comes from all the other sources.  Look at the contrast...neither Rush nor any other talk radio personality I've heard has made the claim that Air America or MS NBC be banned from broadcasting simply on the basis of differing viewpoints.

That alone is a prime example of the "bias" that we conservatives and libertarians see.

[Flick James]

There are a BUNCH of people who continue to feel as though their voice is not heard, that they are marginalized.  Rush gives them a voice on the national stage.  THAT is why he remains popular (I don't think his popularity is in significant decline; he still leads the ratings anyway).

If anybody is feeling like their voice is not heard, boo hoo for them. We have communication technology that makes such a complaint irrelevant. If they are not being heard, I'm sorry, but it's because they are lazy, and tough s**t for them if they lose their "hero" that does their thinking for them. They might actually have to think for themselves for a change. What a travesty.

[ulthar]

If anybody is feeling like their voice is not heard, boo hoo for them. We have communication technology that makes such a complaint irrelevant. If they are not being heard, I'm sorry, but it's because they are lazy, and tough s**t for them if they lose their "hero" that does their thinking for them. They might actually have to think for themselves for a change. What a travesty.

Wow.  Way to marginalize several million people.

I'm talking about having both sides represented in the editorializing of news stories.  Rush Limbaugh filled a void twenty some years ago (and to some extent still does, though admittedly less of one), and if you listen to his callers over the last 20 years....a void they really wanted filling.

He gave NATIONAL voice to their opinions and interpretations of the news and things politicians were saying.

He's not their hero.  He does not do their thinking FOR them...geez.  The mantra that has been repeated by so many of them over the years is "you are saying what'd I'd be saying if *I* had a radio show."

No One Else thinks for me.  Period.  I think I've proven my own ability to do that here on this forum in the past 12-14 years.  I resent the implication that just because I happen to agree with a lot of stuff he says about the size and role of government that I am somehow merely a drone following his every command.

A few years ago, I had occasion to research the demographics of his audience.  They are among the most highly educated and more than statistically represented in professional fields of any audience in any national stage medium.

Quite frankly, how dare you assume any of these people are having their thinking done for them....just because they want their viewpoint represented in the national discourse.

This is exactly why our nation is so polarized on very important issues.  People are lazy?  Because they enjoy hearing someone on a nationally syndicated broadcast radio show say what they would say about a news story if they had a nationally syndicated broadcast radio show?

Just.  Wow.

[Frank81]

communism was a utopian idea.


Also, wasn't Maher kicked off ABC post 9/11?

Communism was never a utopian idea to me. I don't want to live in a  world 'from each according to their ability TO each according to their needs', that's  a  recipe for genocide and slavery.

Bill Maher, like the Dixie Chicks made a career or persecution that didn't exist, supported by a media that hated Bush and the people  like me who voted for him. He was let go cause of low ratings and he went to some cable stations, where  to this day he spews his views. He lost nothing.

[Frank81]

There are a BUNCH of people who continue to feel as though their voice is not heard, that they are marginalized.  Rush gives them a voice on the national stage.  THAT is why he remains popular (I don't think his popularity is in significant decline; he still leads the ratings anyway).

If anybody is feeling like their voice is not heard, boo hoo for them. We have communication technology that makes such a complaint irrelevant. If they are not being heard, I'm sorry, but it's because they are lazy, and tough s**t for them if they lose their "hero" that does their thinking for them. They might actually have to think for themselves for a change. What a travesty.

You do  have a point, I've often said militant action on the so-called  'right' is the only way to be heard, worked wonders for the left.  But, I don't agree it's cause the so-called  conservatives are lazy, just the opposite, most work hard and pay huge amounts keeping the institutions like University,arts and media in business and therein lies the problem. Those institutions are the breeding  ground for those who hate them and control the very places that grant the time to do further damage. It's a bit of a condescending view to say cause one pronounces ideas many agree with that somehow the thinking is done for them.

[Allhallowsday]

Wow.  Way to marginalize several million people.
...
Just.  Wow.

This site leans decidedly to the right.

This is a joke, right?

Wow.  You've convinced me with your intricately woven threads of logic, the depth of your grasp on the larger socioeconomic framework and the keen ability to see beyond your own perspective.
My whole worldview has been shaken....    

Wow.  ....    

Wow.  Way to marginalize several million people.
...
Just.  Wow.

This is a joke, right?

Wow. 

[dean]

A few years ago, I had occasion to research the demographics of his audience.  They are among the most highly educated and more than statistically represented in professional fields of any audience in any national stage medium.

Kind of off topic, but it's been my experience that highly professional and educated does not always translate to having common sense.

 

[This is not a slight against anyone in particular]


Anyways back on topic, Limbaugh's comments were pretty pathetic, but since I don't watch/listen to Maher I can't comment on the double standards thing.  Though based on Indy's initial comment; Maher calling Palin names in what I'm assuming was done for laughs vs Limbaugh lambasting a woman over her use of contrapception in quite a personal, misdirected attack don't seem on the same level to me and I'd feel the same if it was the other way around too.  Both are pathetic but one cuts alot deeper than the other in my mind so comparing the two is apples and oranges.

[Frank81]

Wow.  Way to marginalize several million people.
...
Just.  Wow.

This site leans decidedly to the right.

This is a joke, right?

Wow.  You've convinced me with your intricately woven threads of logic, the depth of your grasp on the larger socioeconomic framework and the keen ability to see beyond your own perspective.
My whole worldview has been shaken....    

Wow.  ....    

Wow.  Way to marginalize several million people.
...
Just.  Wow.

This is a joke, right?

Wow. 

Wow, man, just Wow..  

[Allhallowsday]

...
Wow, man, just Wow..  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieoFkuu_aNM&feature=player_embedded
	Small | Large

[Living_Dead_Girl]

I was talking to the man at the pharmacy about this acctually. We were talking about how here in Australia, Centerlink (a government orgasination, to pay for the un-employed, students, and dissabled) has a health card for anyone on centerlink so they can pay for medication they need at a lower price, (as the centerlink fortnightly payment is $200 - $500 for those on job seeker allowence, not enought for medication and other things) All Priscription medication is a lot cheaper than normal. I was on centerlink for a bit and noticed that all my Prescription medication was cheaper, exsept for birth control.

The point I said to the pharmacist was, if someone who obviously is not in a stabble financial situation to have children and is doing the responsible thing by taking birth control, why does the government not see helping pay for birth control will be a lot less money, compared to helping with food staps and what not for an unplanned child. It seems like the smart thing to do, for the parent(s) child and the government, is avoid this situations. Because a child does not just go away. Or is easy to deal with.

I sorta find it odd that birth control costs that much, but I don't know if she was put on a special type due to other issues she has.

Either way this guy who said she should make sex tapes to pay for birth control, is an idiot. People do not just have sex to make a life, and to him if it is that or the polar opposite off staring in porn, he needs his head checked.

Living Dead Girl, BTW, You get that  from the Rob Zombie song? Anyway, I agree, birth  control is  cheaper than the costs  of a baby, but, isn't self control and not govt control the cheapest  of all?  I mean if one wants  Govt to stay out of her uterus as  I saw a  T-Shirt once, then , what the hell is the Govt., Senate, let alone a  guy a radio,  commenting on it and why does this independent  person  need all these people if they truly want Govt. off their bodies? I'm no defender of Limbaugh or anyone else, but, the point he was making, albeit a bit crudely, if you want cash for your sexual activities, why not just make tapes of it and sell it? I want Govt. to do the least it can for me, just watch the borders, pay the cops, pave the roads, bomb the enemy, and stay the F#@k out of my life.

Yes it was from the rob Zombie song! And also because a living dead girl or person in general is a common theme for "Bad Movies" So yeah off course I was gonna choose that name xD

Self control is the cheapest off all is true with most things, like weight or other health concerns, But Quite honestly these are different times, people no longer wait till marriage and only have sex in order to have children,

I fail to see what the govt in america honestly exspects? It's not like everyone on birth control is Premiscous or whatever anyways, what if you live with your partner? What really made me angery about this dude saying "Make sex tapes to pay for birth control or just don't" is you have to wait till marriage (even if thats not what you believe in) or the polar opposite ! That is just the most disrespectfull thing against women I have heard. And the logic is so dumb I can not even begin to rant. And very un-realistic! Honestly what does the Govt exsepct?? Seriously? I understand the money side off it. yes it is exspensive But It seriously is not just people who sleep around who take it.

But I do admit I am surprised it costs $3000 a year, Considering Any kind off healthcare over here is Rarely that exspensive. (Medicare is a big part off that) I know some medication over there costs $700 a bottle. Here I can buy a months worth off all my regular stuff, and it may be $250 or less, Birth control will make that cost more, and I just found that odd. Not having an unwanted child is a health concern aswell. And I live with my boyfriend, We are not in a good place money wise. I think we are being smart about it, even if it does mean taking money out our small budget to avoid being over our heads with a human life that does not just go away.

Seriously thought this guy saying "make sex tapes to pay for it or just don't have sex!" Is to me very stupid (Yes I get the money part, his logic and way off thinking on the matter is just ... way below average.) Seriously? I honestly think he has something metally wrong with him, I am not trying to insult him. Maybe he should get help and then see how hard it is to pay for some medications. And best off all GET HELP!!! =/

[indianasmith]

It might be condusive to this debate if someone actually produced the transcript of what was said . . . I didn't hear the show the day of the said monologue, so I'm not sure if the "sex tapes" remark is being represented accurately or not.

[lester1/2jr]

Communism was never a utopian idea to me. I don't want to live in a  world 'from each according to their ability TO each according to their needs', that's  a  recipe for genocide and slavery.

it was a recipe for genocide and slavery BECAUSE it was utopian and unrealistic. the road to hell is paved with good intentions, etc

 

Bill Maher, like the Dixie Chicks made a career or persecution that didn't exist, supported by a media that hated Bush and the people  like me who voted for him. He was let go cause of low ratings and he went to some cable stations, where  to this day he spews his views. He lost nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_Incorrect#Controversy_and_cancellation   hard to tell.


at any rate he lost advertisers and did suffer for it.