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Author Topic: Major DC character to come out of the closet  (Read 11250 times)
Mofo Rising
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« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2012, 03:37:35 AM »

I get where you're coming from, Ronnie - really.
But the thing is, I don't love someone, and then hate them.  Those who do that are missing the whole point of Christianity.  GOD LOVES HOMOSEXUALS, just as he loves all others who sin.  Loved them enough that He was willing to let Himself be sacrificed in the most brutal fashion imaginable to save them from the moral sewer they had fallen into.

But He doesn't love the sewer.

Circus, friend, if you have faith but don't let it affect the way you live or react to the real world, then you don't really have any faith at all.  A faith that doesn't change you to some extent is meaningless.

indianasmith, I hope I've made it clear that I hold you in the highest respect, even if I don't respect all (or most) of your beliefs. I know you won't, but please don't construe the rest of what I'm about to say as an attack on you, just a respectful disagreement.

My first point, not all branches of Christianity hold homosexuality as a sin. I'm not even interested in discussing the many varieties of Christianity as regards to this topic, but since the topic has veered this way... It is true that the issue of homosexuality is not viewed with any sort of consistency by the many types of Christianity that exist in the world today. Your brand of Christianity insists that is a perversion of what God wants, and believe me I fully understand how that would be a no-go for you. But that's not the only narrative that exists.

This next part is more difficult, because it is an affront to your beliefs. Please understand that I know you are somebody that does not hold any hate in your heart.

I view homosexuality as a perfectly natural phenomenon. There is a lot more to homosexuality than an obsession with who sticks whose parts into who. All that is present any relationship is there in most homosexual relationships, regardless of whether that is male/female, male/male, or female/female. It's perfectly natural for a species that is in heat all the time.

However, if there is not a cosmic intelligence proclaiming it's a sin, then then the agitprop against it isn't a moral imperative. It's just you telling people that you think they should go to Hell for what they're doing. If there isn't a cosmic law, then describing people's lives as a sewer is indescribably awful. You meaning well only makes it worse.

I know where you're coming from, believe me, but your point of view is incredibly damaging. Not all of us agree, not even those who identify themselves as Christian.
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« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2012, 06:41:00 AM »

I think Indy said it well here:
if you have faith but don't let it affect the way you live or react to the real world, then you don't really have any faith at all.

All I was attempting to point out was that it really is not a 'choice' for Christians of certain flavours, either.  If you are going to extend tolerance to everyone and all lifestyles, then you MUST include tolerating them as they are as well.  It's all or nothing folks.  Telling Christians they are wrong and so on is equally as intolerable as telling gays they are wrong.  Either way you are singling out a group you disagree with and telling them they should not be as they are.  Can't do that for one and not the other.
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« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2012, 06:42:47 AM »

OK-this discussion veered waaay off from the original comic book thing.
Thing is-if comic books didn't evolve with the times-we'd still have stuff like this-



Will Eisner's the SPIRIT is one of my favorite comics of all time. But his sterotype charecter Ebony White is quite disturbing.

Comics evolve and become more mature about the human condition as WE mature. And it should reflect that. Kids read comics. Showing them that homosexuals are not all a bunch of poofy princing clowns -even in the sometimes clumsy way DC is doing it-should be applauded.
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« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2012, 06:54:49 AM »

I think Indy said it well here:
if you have faith but don't let it affect the way you live or react to the real world, then you don't really have any faith at all.

All I was attempting to point out was that it really is not a 'choice' for Christians of certain flavours, either.  If you are going to extend tolerance to everyone and all lifestyles, then you MUST include tolerating them as they are as well.  It's all or nothing folks.  Telling Christians they are wrong and so on is equally as intolerable as telling gays they are wrong.  Either way you are singling out a group you disagree with and telling them they should not be as they are.  Can't do that for one and not the other.

Your right.
Except I don't jihaas or Crusade for my beliefs. I dont crucify or burn folks at the stake. I dont say there going to hell. To be honest-my opinion-you go too far right or left is just narrow minded.There is room for us all on this dirtball planet.
Why fight?
I do believe Christ taught tolerence.
Practice what you preach.
Me?
I never claimed to be a good guy.
I'm a drunk.
I dont care. Heaven and Hell mean nothing to me.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2012, 07:00:00 AM »

Newt, thanks for that comment.  You make the point I was trying to make better than I did.
Mofo, I appreciate all your kind words, and I do recognize that there are many flavors and permutations of Christianity. Some have embraced the gay lifestyle and even ordain and marry homosexuals.  However, they can only do that by DENYING that the Bible is God's inspired word.  If I believe that the Bible is true when it says that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for my sinful nature, then I also have to believe it is true when it says homosexuality is immoral.  And, ultimately, when it  comes down to it, I would rather believe in the Word of God than the word of men.  As for whether or not homosexuality is inborn or learned, I think that, while desire may be innate to a degree, I believe that all behavior is ultimately chosen.  And I do believe it is possible for a person to leave the gay lifestyle permanently.

RC, you are my friend, and it's good that you are redirecthing this thread to its original topic. The only thing I will say in contradiction to your last post is that Christ taught love, not tolerance.  When they brought him the woman taken in the act of adultery, He drove off her accusers and forgave her.  But He did not say "Go and sleep around some more."  He said "Go and sin no more."  As far as the original topic goes . . .. I am not an advocate of censorship, and DC is free to publish whatever they want, just as I am free to purchase it . . . or not.  


Now I am going arrowhead hunting.  Toodles!
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« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2012, 07:09:14 AM »



that Christ taught love, not tolerance.  




WTF does that mean? What?
I guess I'm evil.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 11:23:33 AM by RCMerchant » Logged

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« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2012, 10:07:00 AM »

This is still all a load of blinkered bullsh!t, and "moral sewer"?   Lookingup
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« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2012, 11:55:54 AM »

If you have faith in something, that's great, but don't let it get you bent out of shape over the real life day-to-day goings on of modern society.

In all fairness, Circus, it may not be possible for some people to make that separation.  Their belief is supposed to guide them through "the real life day-to-day goings on of modern society" and, in addition, turning a blind eye may not be an option for them.
I love ya Newt-but I agree with Circus.
If your religion is based on love-and you do a 2-face and say-"I hate them but i love them.-what the f**k is that all about?
Its not that they are PHYSICALLY hurting anybody-but that attitude is what started the National Socialist Party.
Prejudice is evil. And I acn understand if they were a military threat.
But-DAM.
I don't think a parade of drag queens is going to upsurp your country.
Theyre here-theye queer-they aint going away.
Get used to it. Quit being a p***y. Dont be so insecure.
And NO-thats not pulling the "Nazi" card...thats just true.

See what happens? I started my debate on this sober-now Im drunk-and I still think I make sense. Nah-I aint a bleeding heart. Im an anarchishst.
The LAST thing folks should be worried about is the queers.
Look at the big picture.

     It's not about hating people, but behaviors.
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     The choice is simple; refuse to create, and refuse to grow, or build, with care and love.
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« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2012, 11:57:12 AM »

I get where you're coming from, Ronnie - really.
But the thing is, I don't love someone, and then hate them.  Those who do that are missing the whole point of Christianity.  GOD LOVES HOMOSEXUALS, just as he loves all others who sin.  Loved them enough that He was willing to let Himself be sacrificed in the most brutal fashion imaginable to save them from the moral sewer they had fallen into.

But He doesn't love the sewer.

Circus, friend, if you have faith but don't let it affect the way you live or react to the real world, then you don't really have any faith at all.  A faith that doesn't change you to some extent is meaningless.
Yes....very well put. And please believe me that I do not hate anyone who is gay.  And I do realize that homosexuality is here to stay....right now it's one of our lesser worries. I'd say getting this nation back to work to repair this sad economy is much more important. Social issues,no matter how important,are often used to divide and comquer by folks who have others agendas in  mind. But I must stick with my faith in such matters....which is indeed thinking for myself. Smile
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« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2012, 12:07:33 PM »

... In the interest of transparency, I am, or have been...a homosexual...
You were a homosexual?   Question

     There was a period of my life, from my mid-teens until my thirties, when I believed myself to be homosexual. It would take entirely too long to go into WHY I believed this; suffice it to say that I lived the life, and accepted it. Over time, I came to understand that this was not truly "me".

     During that time, I made many friends who are homosexual, and found family members who were in the life. I've not seen any of them in many a year (I moved away from my hometown), but I would still recieve them as friends, and respect them as
 human beings.

     However, if asked, I would tell even them that I believe homosexuality to be a sin. Not an excuse to hate, harm, or marginalize another person, but a sin.

     I have sin    we all do.
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If it's true what they say, that GOD created us in His image, then why should we not love creating, and why should we not continue to do so, as carefully and ethically as we can, on whatever scale we're capable of?

     The choice is simple; refuse to create, and refuse to grow, or build, with care and love.
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« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2012, 12:15:40 PM »

OK-this discussion veered waaay off from the original comic book thing.
Thing is-if comic books didn't evolve with the times-we'd still have stuff like this-



Will Eisner's the SPIRIT is one of my favorite comics of all time. But his sterotype charecter Ebony White is quite disturbing.

Comics evolve and become more mature about the human condition as WE mature. And it should reflect that. Kids read comics. Showing them that homosexuals are not all a bunch of poofy princing clowns -even in the sometimes clumsy way DC is doing it-should be applauded.


     As a man of partial negroid genetics, I never found Ebony White disturbing. So he spoke thus....so what? He was a fully realized character, who sometimes had more of a hand in solving a case than Denny Colt did.

     Better that than some of the nihilistic urban gyrations that pass for "black" today.
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If it's true what they say, that GOD created us in His image, then why should we not love creating, and why should we not continue to do so, as carefully and ethically as we can, on whatever scale we're capable of?

     The choice is simple; refuse to create, and refuse to grow, or build, with care and love.
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« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2012, 05:22:36 PM »

OK-this discussion veered waaay off from the original comic book thing.
Thing is-if comic books didn't evolve with the times-we'd still have stuff like this-



Will Eisner's the SPIRIT is one of my favorite comics of all time. But his sterotype charecter Ebony White is quite disturbing.

Comics evolve and become more mature about the human condition as WE mature. And it should reflect that. Kids read comics. Showing them that homosexuals are not all a bunch of poofy princing clowns -even in the sometimes clumsy way DC is doing it-should be applauded.


     As a man of partial negroid genetics, I never found Ebony White disturbing. So he spoke thus....so what? He was a fully realized character, who sometimes had more of a hand in solving a case than Denny Colt did.

     Better that than some of the nihilistic urban gyrations that pass for "black" today.

THAT I agree with-he was always depicted in a good light-but the boot lip minstel type drawing-and his speach was defintitly very srereotypical "yes massah" mode.
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« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2012, 05:37:22 PM »

RC, you are my friend, and it's good that you are redirecthing this thread to its original topic. The only thing I will say in contradiction to your last post is that Christ taught love, not tolerance.  When they brought him the woman taken in the act of adultery, He drove off her accusers and forgave her.  But He did not say "Go and sleep around some more."  He said "Go and sin no more..."
JESUS also said "...give to CAESAR what is CAESAR's..." and I know the rest, but that's enough.  The Romans were dominators, oppressors, rapists and killers.  JESUS most definitely preached tolerance.   Sometimes, he chose to give good advice.

...As a man of partial negroid genetics, I never found Ebony White disturbing. So he spoke thus....so what? He was a fully realized character, who sometimes had more of a hand in solving a case than Denny Colt did.

     Better that than some of the nihilistic urban gyrations that pass for "black" today.
I do appreciate your candor; which early on I had mistaken for a kind of racism.  I think there are problems in "Black" America that are cultural... and probably in "Gay" America, too.  Just about ANY America I think of as a matter of fact.  And of course you've shared some of your heritage with us, even your photo. 
Yet, I feel sad.  Why do I feel you are hating on yourself?   Bluesad
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 05:48:25 PM by Allhallowsday » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2012, 06:35:28 PM »

"give to Caesar what is Caesar's . . ."

I always thought that meant to respect and obey the government.

Anyways, looks like everyone has pretty much stated where they stand on this issue, one way or the other. 
I'm always happy to answer any direct questions, charges, accusations, or insults  Wink But I think I'm pretty
much done with this one.

Plus I got REALLY overheated at the river today and I am pretty much jello right now! lol
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« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2012, 09:22:33 PM »

In the long run-I don't care. All the comics I own dont date later than 1976 anyway.
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Interviewer-"Does Dracula ever end for you?"
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