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Author Topic: Second accuser comes forward, Clash resigns from Sesame Street  (Read 1893 times)
Fausto
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« on: November 20, 2012, 07:15:27 PM »

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/11/20/kevin-clash-resigns-elmo-sesame-street/
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AndyC
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 11:21:32 PM »

Quote
In the suit, Singleton claims ... although the sex occurred nearly 20 years ago, he didn't take action until now because ... he "did not become aware that he had suffered adverse psychological and emotional effects from Kevin Clash's sexual acts and conduct until 2012."

Right. And that awareness just happened to coincide with his realization that he could make some money.
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ChaosTheory
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2012, 12:05:53 PM »

Well this is turning into one colossal trainwreck, isn't it?  Pretty sure the first guy was lying; this one, who knows.  There'll probably be more accusers before this story ends, all wanting magazine covers and money....

And unless he actively repressed the memory, I seriously doubt Singleton just now became aware that he was traumatized.
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ulthar
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2012, 12:19:39 PM »

This whole situation is pretty disgusting.  Clash has a wife and family, so these "accusations" effect more than just him.  What about his coworkers...how does it reflect on Sesame Street as a whole?

A person making a claim like this should not get one word of "press" until there is some substantiating evidence to justify ruining a man's career and personal life.  In essence, he's already been found "guilty" in the social court and he's already convicted...he's paying a price JUST FOR THE ACCUSATION.  Other's, certainly completely innocent, are paying a price as well, no matter how it turns out.

Even if this second claim is found false as well, none of that will bring back what Kevin Clash has already lost.  Where is the social and moral responsibility to  protect the innocent, or at least the "not yet proven guilty?"

This whole thing makes me want to punch "the media" in the face.  I have lost nothing learning about this after he's convicted if it goes that far.  So, "media," STFU and act like part of a social fabric for a change; if there's a story here, you can write it THEN...but stop hurting people to make stories happen.

{end of rant}
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2012, 01:25:02 PM »

This whole situation is pretty disgusting.  Clash has a wife and family, so these "accusations" effect more than just him.  What about his coworkers...how does it reflect on Sesame Street as a whole?

A person making a claim like this should not get one word of "press" until there is some substantiating evidence to justify ruining a man's career and personal life.  In essence, he's already been found "guilty" in the social court and he's already convicted...he's paying a price JUST FOR THE ACCUSATION.  Other's, certainly completely innocent, are paying a price as well, no matter how it turns out.

Even if this second claim is found false as well, none of that will bring back what Kevin Clash has already lost.  Where is the social and moral responsibility to  protect the innocent, or at least the "not yet proven guilty?"

This whole thing makes me want to punch "the media" in the face.  I have lost nothing learning about this after he's convicted if it goes that far.  So, "media," STFU and act like part of a social fabric for a change; if there's a story here, you can write it THEN...but stop hurting people to make stories happen.

{end of rant}
Couldn't have said it better.
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SynapticBoomstick
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2012, 06:49:29 PM »

This whole situation is pretty disgusting.  Clash has a wife and family, so these "accusations" effect more than just him.  What about his coworkers...how does it reflect on Sesame Street as a whole?

A person making a claim like this should not get one word of "press" until there is some substantiating evidence to justify ruining a man's career and personal life.  In essence, he's already been found "guilty" in the social court and he's already convicted...he's paying a price JUST FOR THE ACCUSATION.  Other's, certainly completely innocent, are paying a price as well, no matter how it turns out.

Even if this second claim is found false as well, none of that will bring back what Kevin Clash has already lost.  Where is the social and moral responsibility to  protect the innocent, or at least the "not yet proven guilty?"

This whole thing makes me want to punch "the media" in the face.  I have lost nothing learning about this after he's convicted if it goes that far.  So, "media," STFU and act like part of a social fabric for a change; if there's a story here, you can write it THEN...but stop hurting people to make stories happen.

{end of rant}

Sadly that's not where the big money is. Bluesad It's sick how personal tragedy is glorified today. Years ago this wouldn't have been anyone's business, right?
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AndyC
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« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2012, 08:47:11 PM »

That was one of my biggest beefs with the last place where I worked as a reporter. It was all about getting the most sensational story right away. Any piece of gossip was taken at face value, and any crackpot who was willing to go on the record would be quoted. Never any concern about respecting privacy. No sense of boundaries beyond the libel laws (and those were pushed to the limit). No weighing of benefits vs. potential damage in running a story. If you only had half the story, write another one next week. If something was wrong, print a small correction. If somebody was really misrepresented, just print his side next time. It was just more juicy stuff to print. And none of it was your responsibility, because you just reported what other people said and did.

God forbid you should suggest anything was private, and not a matter of public concern. They'd honestly look at you like you were an idiot. And this was allegedly a small-town community newspaper.

I was fortunate to previously work at a paper where we had a sense of responsibility for what we published. Pretty unique, in hindsight. I understand the standards there have dropped considerably in the years since I left though.

I have been out of the industry completely for over four years, and I can't say I have missed it once in that time. It just disgusts me.
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Allhallowsday
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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2012, 09:25:11 PM »

This whole situation is pretty disgusting.  Clash has a wife and family, so these "accusations" effect more than just him.  What about his coworkers...how does it reflect on Sesame Street as a whole?
A person making a claim like this should not get one word of "press" until there is some substantiating evidence to justify ruining a man's career and personal life.  In essence, he's already been found "guilty" in the social court and he's already convicted...he's paying a price JUST FOR THE ACCUSATION.  Other's, certainly completely innocent, are paying a price as well, no matter how it turns out.
Even if this second claim is found false as well, none of that will bring back what Kevin Clash has already lost.  Where is the social and moral responsibility to  protect the innocent, or at least the "not yet proven guilty?"
This whole thing makes me want to punch "the media" in the face.  I have lost nothing learning about this after he's convicted if it goes that far.  So, "media," STFU and act like part of a social fabric for a change; if there's a story here, you can write it THEN...but stop hurting people to make stories happen.
{end of rant}
Couldn't have said it better.
It could be said better.  I'm not the one to do it, and I don't disagree with Ulthar, but clarification is worthwhile in any discussion.  CLASH is divorced from his wife.  CLASH has acknowledged that he is gay and had a relationship with his first accuser.  There is the accusation that a large sum of money was paid for the recantation by the first accuser.  
Does this reflect badly on the Sesame Workshop organization?  Perhaps, but I feel each individual is responsible for his own actions and such should not reflect upon that person's employer if such did not enable or obscure behaviors.  
Is this a news story?  As long as there's been media, there's been sensationalism.  Not of much interest to me, but the discussion here is of interest.  

Money is a powerful motivator.  Any accuser seeking monetary compensation may be suspect.  However, Jerry Sandusky used a similar defense.   Where there's smoke, there's fire.  The media are not going to step aside until a person is proved innocent.  That's probably not fair, but it's true.  
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 09:27:42 PM by Allhallowsday » Logged

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ulthar
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« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2012, 09:44:17 PM »

AHD, I don't care what the specific details are in this case.  That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about this crap being decided in the court of popular press, not a court of law where certain legal protections are in place or at least simply among the parties involved.

Sorry if you don't understand that there is a bigger issue here than this particular case.  Carry on.
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Trevor
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« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2012, 07:00:07 AM »

And unless he actively repressed the memory, I seriously doubt Singleton just now became aware that he was traumatized.

After I suffered abuse at the hands of my birth parents and then later on being sexually abused in boarding school, I have never since then actively repressed those memories. In fact, those memories are the wellspring of the anger that drives me daily to succeed and rise above myself. Keeping them alive allows me to deal with myself.

Judging by the abuse I suffered, I am shocked to find that most people consider me a nice guy in spite of everything and those that know of the sexual abuse I went through, are quite content to let me look after their kids.

Why, you ask?

Because all that abuse sh*t stops with me. Period.
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« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2012, 01:44:36 PM »

And unless he actively repressed the memory, I seriously doubt Singleton just now became aware that he was traumatized.

After I suffered abuse at the hands of my birth parents and then later on being sexually abused in boarding school, I have never since then actively repressed those memories. In fact, those memories are the wellspring of the anger that drives me daily to succeed and rise above myself. Keeping them alive allows me to deal with myself.

Judging by the abuse I suffered, I am shocked to find that most people consider me a nice guy in spite of everything and those that know of the sexual abuse I went through, are quite content to let me look after their kids.

Why, you ask?

Because all that abuse sh*t stops with me. Period.

This is exactly why I find people saying that they repressed their memories of being abused when they've shown exactly no symptoms of having suffered abuse to be suspicious. Even one incident of sexual abuse generally has life-long consequences that the victim is very aware of. Repressed memories are always suspicious, anyway; the human mind has a bad habit of assembling memories from what makes sense for the situation rather than what actually happened. There's a reason why many courts will not accept repressed memories accessed via hypnosis as evidence; the witness may sound confident, but that doesn't mean they're remembering things correctly.

And that's assuming that he's not just lying to try to get money (which, of course, is highly probably). I hate what the media has become; sensationalism has always been there, yes, but even I remember when it wasn't this bad. Like I said before, this kind of thing seriously hurts real victims of sexual abuse who are trying to bring their abusers to justice. Juries hear too many incidents like this, and they assume that the victim is just another liar (nevermind that abuse rates in general have been shown to be shockingly high and most victims never seek justice for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is shame.)
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Allhallowsday
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« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2012, 07:10:38 PM »

AHD, I don't care what the specific details are in this case.  That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about this crap being decided in the court of popular press, not a court of law where certain legal protections are in place or at least simply among the parties involved.

Sorry if you don't understand that there is a bigger issue here than this particular case.  Carry on.
I do understand, and as I wrote, I don't disagree with you.  Perhaps there is a "bigger issue".  Yet, "substantiating evidence", as you wrote, is CLASH himself admitting there was a relationship, or the fact that he may have paid hush money.  You cited some particulars which I sought to clarify, relating to this "case".  I'm not so ignorant that the subtlety of your writing is lost on me.  But you know that, don't you? 
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AndyC
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« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2012, 07:59:58 PM »

I don't like the way it's been reported. Assuming Clash did everything he's reported to have done with this second accuser, we still have a guy in his 20s (at that time) hooking up with somebody maybe a dozen years his junior and just barely below the age of consent in most places. He did it on his own time, and did not abuse his status as a beloved television icon. They were both willing participants. This teenager did not hook up with an older man online expecting a purely platonic relationship.

What impression do I get from the headlines? A beloved children's entertainer pushing 50 years of age who likes to mess around with minors. I've said it before, I don't condone what Clash did, but the available information does not come anywhere close to suggesting he's some kind of sexual predator who trolls the internet for unsuspecting boys to coerce into sex. And there's nothing to suggest he isn't fit to go right on entertaining children. But that is the impression some media outlets like to give, and that is the conclusion many people can't resist jumping to.

This is where some responsible journalism would have helped. This is a story that does not protect the public or serve us in any way other than satisfying our appetite for celebrity gossip. It has, however, done a great deal of damage to Kevin Clash, to the Sesame Workshop, to the Elmo character and to countless people connected with them, not to mention tarnishing many childhood memories. And that can't be completely undone, no matter how this turns out. Any idiot could predict that outcome, but the news media just blithely throw the story out there, hiding behind that old excuse that they don't make the news, but they have a responsibility to report it. Or that they have to report it, because their competitors are going to do it. What they're really doing is dodging responsibility.

And even if you decide to run such a story, there is no excuse for not taking the utmost care to ensure people understand it, and that it's not going to lead them to any false conculsions.

This is how I worked as a reporter, and it's how I ran my newsroom as an editor. Sadly, that is a rare thing these days. It's one of a few reasons I won't go back to that business.
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ChaosTheory
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2012, 12:45:54 PM »

And unless he actively repressed the memory, I seriously doubt Singleton just now became aware that he was traumatized.

After I suffered abuse at the hands of my birth parents and then later on being sexually abused in boarding school, I have never since then actively repressed those memories. In fact, those memories are the wellspring of the anger that drives me daily to succeed and rise above myself. Keeping them alive allows me to deal with myself.

Judging by the abuse I suffered, I am shocked to find that most people consider me a nice guy in spite of everything and those that know of the sexual abuse I went through, are quite content to let me look after their kids.

Why, you ask?

Because all that abuse sh*t stops with me. Period.

This is exactly why I find people saying that they repressed their memories of being abused when they've shown exactly no symptoms of having suffered abuse to be suspicious. Even one incident of sexual abuse generally has life-long consequences that the victim is very aware of. Repressed memories are always suspicious, anyway; the human mind has a bad habit of assembling memories from what makes sense for the situation rather than what actually happened. There's a reason why many courts will not accept repressed memories accessed via hypnosis as evidence; the witness may sound confident, but that doesn't mean they're remembering things correctly.


True, and I didn't mean to suggest that abuse is something you can simply forget, (just that some people try to tamp it down as a coping mechanism)  but that the timing of this is all extremely suspicious.

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tracy
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 01:25:27 PM »

This whole situation is pretty disgusting.  Clash has a wife and family, so these "accusations" effect more than just him.  What about his coworkers...how does it reflect on Sesame Street as a whole?
A person making a claim like this should not get one word of "press" until there is some substantiating evidence to justify ruining a man's career and personal life.  In essence, he's already been found "guilty" in the social court and he's already convicted...he's paying a price JUST FOR THE ACCUSATION.  Other's, certainly completely innocent, are paying a price as well, no matter how it turns out.
Even if this second claim is found false as well, none of that will bring back what Kevin Clash has already lost.  Where is the social and moral responsibility to  protect the innocent, or at least the "not yet proven guilty?"
This whole thing makes me want to punch "the media" in the face.  I have lost nothing learning about this after he's convicted if it goes that far.  So, "media," STFU and act like part of a social fabric for a change; if there's a story here, you can write it THEN...but stop hurting people to make stories happen.
{end of rant}
Couldn't have said it better.
It could be said better.  I'm not the one to do it, and I don't disagree with Ulthar, but clarification is worthwhile in any discussion.  CLASH is divorced from his wife.  CLASH has acknowledged that he is gay and had a relationship with his first accuser.  There is the accusation that a large sum of money was paid for the recantation by the first accuser.  
Does this reflect badly on the Sesame Workshop organization?  Perhaps, but I feel each individual is responsible for his own actions and such should not reflect upon that person's employer if such did not enable or obscure behaviors.  
Is this a news story?  As long as there's been media, there's been sensationalism.  Not of much interest to me, but the discussion here is of interest.  

Money is a powerful motivator.  Any accuser seeking monetary compensation may be suspect.  However, Jerry Sandusky used a similar defense.   Where there's smoke, there's fire.  The media are not going to step aside until a person is proved innocent.  That's probably not fair, but it's true.  

Money is indeed a powerful motivator which is so sad....and making sure the press gets a hold of such a story feeds their attempt at extortion.
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