Bad Movie Logo
"A website to the detriment of good film"
Custom Search
HOMEB-MOVIE REVIEWSREADER REVIEWSFORUMINTERVIEWSUPDATESABOUT
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 02, 2014, 05:56:43 AM
534677 Posts in 40452 Topics by 5080 Members
Latest Member: Bantu
Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  And the killer of Trayvon Martin is found..... « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3]
Author Topic: And the killer of Trayvon Martin is found.....  (Read 1891 times)
ER
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 282
Posts: 1687



« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2013, 05:04:26 PM »

Ever notice the media has programmed people to call Treyvon Martin "Treyvon" whereas George Zimmerman is always "Zimmerman"? Rarely do you hear "Martin and George".

"Trayvon is dead at Zimmerman's hand."

I think even in that small a detail it shows the ongoing manipulation of minds.
Logged

Seeking Tir a 'nOg since 1978.
Allhallowsday
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 1538
Posts: 10795


Either he's dead or my watch has stopped!


« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2013, 10:15:26 AM »

I would think that the fact that Treyvon had apparently been in trouble for fighting before would be relevant when the key point in Zimmermann's story is that the young man jumped him and began pounding his head on the ground.  It shows a propensity on the part of the victim to resolve confrontation by means of physical assault.
That may arguably be true if Zimmerman knew of Treyvon's propensity for violence, but then he could testify to it himself. There's no need for others to testify to what was in his mind. It's likely irrelevant anyway. If he was reasonably afraid of being assaulted at that moment then it wouldn't really matter whether the person he shot had ever committed an assault prior or not.

P.S. I know nothing about this case and did not pay the slightest bit of attention to it, I'm just bringing up general points of law.
In any case, the legal relevancy of TRAYVON MARTIN's past is not lost on us, and that exclusion certainly weakened the defense's case.   
Logged

If you want to view paradise . . . simply look around and view it!
El Misfit
The bullsh*t meter is up high ಠ__ಠ
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 734
Posts: 10593


Listen here you little s**t.


« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2013, 10:33:09 AM »

I'm going to leave this here, for all of you to laugh at.
Logged

yeah no.
Umaril Has Returned
Guest
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2013, 04:34:09 PM »

I'm going to leave this here, for all of you to laugh at.


WERD.......   Cheers
Logged
ulthar
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 323
Posts: 3830


I AM serious, and stop calling me Shirley


WWW
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2013, 05:33:25 PM »

I would think that the fact that Treyvon had apparently been in trouble for fighting before would be relevant when the key point in Zimmermann's story is that the young man jumped him and began pounding his head on the ground.  It shows a propensity on the part of the victim to resolve confrontation by means of physical assault.

That may arguably be true if Zimmerman knew of Treyvon's propensity for violence, but then he could testify to it himself. There's no need for others to testify to what was in his mind. It's likely irrelevant anyway. If he was reasonably afraid of being assaulted at that moment then it wouldn't really matter whether the person he shot had ever committed an assault prior or not.

P.S. I know nothing about this case and did not pay the slightest bit of attention to it, I'm just bringing up general points of law.

For what it is worth, I have testified in a quite a number of homicide, rape and armed robbery cases, sometimes as an "expert witness" sometimes as a "fact witness."

What Rev says here is true in practice, at least in the courts in which I've testified.

Very, very rarely in any felony case is the 'past' of the defendant (or in cases like this one, the victim) admitted.  It simply is not relevant in the vast majority of cases.  The only fact that would matter is if the person who did the killing was in fear for their life AT THE TIME OF THE KILLING.

Further, the jury (or court in general) can only judge the situation by the fact known to the actors at the time.  You cannot use hindsight...which knowing the victim's past would likely be. 

The relevant case law, at least in terms of deadly force involving police, is Tennessee v Garner (1985).  I think it was not the main issue of contention in that case, but I'm pretty sure that was the case where the court specifically stated that facts known to the actors at the time of the incident are the only facts relevant at trial.  Rev, can you correct me on that?

The other thing I don't know is if Tennessee v Garner is the applicable law in civilian deadly force cases.  Rev, any idea on that?

The bottom line, and the argument I have heard countless times in felony trials, is that presentation of past criminal activity is deemed prejudicial...jurors MAY make assumptions of guilt based on knowledge of past behavior rather than deciding THIS CASE.

Rarely, past events are allowed, but even then, they are generally allowed only in a very narrow scope...such as if Zimmerman and Martin had had a previous confrontation, and then it would likely only be to the extent of "Was a police report filed...if so, how was that adjudicated?"  Very cold, factual presentation of documented, "official" facts would the limit.

There are notable exceptions, too.  For example, in 'three strikes' type cases it must be shown, and recorded, that past convictions occurred.  So, for example, if a person was on trial for second offense of something, very clearly it has to be shown they have a first offense, or legally the jury can NOT find them guilty of second offense.

Finally, think about it this way.  Not only does excluding Martin's past protect Martin, but it protects Zimmerman as well.  If the court were shown that Martin had a violent past or a propensity to solve disputes with violence, then it MAY be argued that Zimmerman went into the situation fully expecting not only violence but planning deadly force.  Painting a character one way gives the other actors "motivation" they may or may not have had, at least in the minds of the jurors.

Does that last bit make sense?
Logged

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
Bodie:      I've been giving myself shock treatments.
Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

--Real Genius
Rev. Powell
Global Moderator
B-Movie Kraken
****

Karma: 1787
Posts: 14465


Click on that globe for 366 Weird Movies


WWW
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2013, 07:54:17 PM »


The other thing I don't know is if Tennessee v Garner is the applicable law in civilian deadly force cases.  Rev, any idea on that?


Not without researching it. But the principle is simple and you explained it well. Thanks for expanding our understanding of the issue.
Logged

"The best parts are watching Sly go through the full range of emotions: deadpan, deadpan with raised eyebrow, deadpan with quivering lip. There's also a great sequence where Sly drives his VW Beetle down the interstate for about 20 minutes, staring dramatically through the windshield.."-Joe Bob on A MAN CALLED RAMBO
Green
Guest
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2013, 03:09:12 PM »

Did you guys hear Zimmerman pulled a couple folks from a wrecked vehicle; what a horrible person this Zimmerman.  Smile
Logged
VenomX73
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 151
Posts: 1232



« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2013, 03:19:21 PM »

Ever notice the media has programmed people to call Treyvon Martin "Treyvon" whereas George Zimmerman is always "Zimmerman"?

I think even in that small a detail it shows the ongoing manipulation of minds.

programmed people... Exactly!
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]
Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  And the killer of Trayvon Martin is found..... « previous next »
    Jump to:  


    RSS Feed Subscribe Subscribe by RSS
    Email Subscribe Subscribe by Email


    Popular Articles
    How To Find A Bad Movie

    The Champions of Justice

    Plan 9 from Outer Space

    Manos, The Hands of Fate

    Podcast: Todd the Convenience Store Clerk

    Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!

    Dragonball: The Magic Begins

    Cool As Ice

    The Educational Archives: Driver's Ed

    Godzilla vs. Monster Zero

    Do you have a zombie plan?

    FROM THE BADMOVIES.ORG ARCHIVES
    ImageThe Giant Claw - Slime drop

    Earth is visited by a GIANT ANTIMATTER SPACE BUZZARD! Gawk at the amazingly bad bird puppet, or chuckle over the silly dialog. This is one of the greatest b-movies ever made.

    Lesson Learned:
    • Osmosis: os·mo·sis (oz-mo'sis, os-) n., 1. When a bird eats something.

    Subscribe to Badmovies.org and get updates by email:

    HOME B-Movie Reviews Reader Reviews Forum Interviews TV Shows Advertising Information Sideshows Links Contact

    Badmovies.org is owned and operated by Andrew Borntreger. All original content is © 1998 - 2014 by its respective author(s). Image, video, and audio files are used in accordance with the Fair Use Law, and are property of the film copyright holders. You may freely link to any page (.html or .php) on this website, but reproduction in any other form must be authorized by the copyright holder.