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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Television  |  Massive Doctor Who Plot Points That Are Never Again Discussed « previous next »
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Author Topic: Massive Doctor Who Plot Points That Are Never Again Discussed  (Read 442 times)
ER
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« on: August 06, 2014, 10:16:03 AM »


http://www.hitfix.com/galleries/massive-doctor-who-plot-points-that-are-never-discussed-again


Many interesting thoughts above as we gear up for a new Doctor. Point number seven brings up something that's always seemed a strong indicator that a limit of twelve regenerations is a myth.


Is the First Doctor really the First?

Let's take it back. All the way back to the Fourth incarnation of the Doctor. During "The Brain of Morbius" the Doctor (Tom Baker) suffers a series of flashbacks from his previous lives. One, Two, and Three are accounted for but then something weird happens. Eight unknown faces appear, meaning the Fourth Doctor would really be the 12th Doctor. We all know the first rule of traveling with the mad man in a box is "The Doctor lies," but how would this even be possible unless he received another Hail Mary set of regenerations prior to our knowledge.


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Ticonderoga 64
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2014, 11:06:32 AM »


http://www.hitfix.com/galleries/massive-doctor-who-plot-points-that-are-never-discussed-again


Many interesting thoughts above as we gear up for a new Doctor. Point number seven brings up something that's always seemed a strong indicator that a limit of twelve regenerations is a myth.


Is the First Doctor really the First?

Let's take it back. All the way back to the Fourth incarnation of the Doctor. During "The Brain of Morbius" the Doctor (Tom Baker) suffers a series of flashbacks from his previous lives. One, Two, and Three are accounted for but then something weird happens. Eight unknown faces appear, meaning the Fourth Doctor would really be the 12th Doctor. We all know the first rule of traveling with the mad man in a box is "The Doctor lies," but how would this even be possible unless he received another Hail Mary set of regenerations prior to our knowledge.





There is just as much, if not more evidence to contradict this; in DAY OF THE DALEKS, the Doctor is subjected to the Daleks' mind scanner to establish his identity and it comes up with the images of his past incarnations from Hartnell to Pertwee. In THE THREE DOCTORS, the President of the Time Lord council tells the techs to show him the "earliest Doctor" when plotting to help both Troughton and Pertwee  with the threat of Omega. The tech complies and we get William Hartnell. In MAWDRYN UNDEAD, the Fifth Doctor tells the Brigadier, Nyssa & Tegan that he has previously regenerated four times before this incarnation and that he may only do so twelve times total, the previous regenerations going backward lead to Hartnell once again. In THE FIVE DOCTORS, the First Doctor tells Tegan and Turlough he is the original Doctor. Once again in RESURRECTION OF THE DALEKS, the Doctor is being scanned for his brain waves that run all the way back to his beginning in order for the Daleks to make a duplicate of him. As the scanner goes back through the Doctor's past, it runs from Davison all the way back to Hartnell where in conclusion in starts to destroy his mind before it is shut down. In THE ELEVENTH HOUR, when the Atraxi scan the Doctor for information, they show him from the beginning, again starting with Hartnell.., in the NAME OF THE DOCTOR. Clara goes through all of the previous Doctors time streams, including that of the War Doctor. She doesnt view any others than those. At the climax of DAY OF THE DOCTOR, all of the incarnations of the Doctor show up to save Gallifrey from the Daleks, including the Peter Capaldi version. The Time Lord Senator declares that "all thirteen" are now present. There are no mentions of incarnations before Hartnell before or after the BRAIN OF MORBIUS and it has been often described as possible version of Morbius himself rather than the Doctor by way of explanation.

Furthermore, the Doctor and a few other Time Lords have mentioned that after 12 regenerations, that is usually the end for a Time Lord, hence the Master's quest for a new body for ages back in the old series. Some exceptions have been the Master(resurrected by the Time Lords to fight in the Time War) and Rassilon himself, who was said to be the first to achieve perpetual regeneration. Now, as shown by the events of TIME OF THE DOCTOR, the Doctor has received a whole new life cycle of regenerations and he tells Clara as much just before he changes into the Capaldi Doctor.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 11:11:06 AM by Ticonderoga 64 » Logged
ER
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 09:23:15 AM »

LOL If the shows ends because there's no new doctor after this one, I'll eat a yarmulke covered in butter. In sci-fi there's always a loophole, and Doctor Who's internal consistency has at times been very inconsistent. After all, if the Valeyard from McCoy's Trial of a Timelord season is taken as canon then we're already past the limit now.



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Ticonderoga 64
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2014, 10:12:30 AM »

First of all, the Valyard was an amalgamation of the Doctor's dark side and not a true incarnation..and he was in Colin Baker's era..second of all, have you watched any of the show lately? The Doctor GOT a new set of regenerations in TIME OF THE DOCTOR as he was dying from old age as his original life cycle was used up. This means that he can go on regenerating as he did when he changed into Peter Capaldi..no one has said anything about the show ending. The Doctor got a new set of lives and that took care of the 12 regeneration rule as far as he's concerned, and we are past the limit as of Matt Smith's Doctor..count the regenerations:


Small | Large



This covers all of his lives(used up) until the Time Lords give him a new life cycle and he regenerates from Smith to Capaldi at the end of TIME OF THE DOCTOR.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 10:17:04 AM by Ticonderoga 64 » Logged
ER
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 03:14:30 PM »

You're absolutely right, 64, the Trial was Baker and not McCoy. My brain knew that but my typing fingers went on strike, probably in subconscious protest for how Peri was treated in that regrettable season. I think the article in my original link makes some overall good points about the series, and I respect your differing interpretation on the one out of the sixteen I quoted. I hope the new season brings as much to your life as the other ones have, and thanks for your many thoughtful comments.
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 07:49:27 PM »

I was a huge Dr Who fan years ago, and it gave me a great deal of pleasure to read this thread.  I had completely forgotten that part of the Brain of Morbius!

Dr Who's inconsistencies at both micro and macro level were apparent, but never got in the way of the fun.

Example: in the Peter Davison story Time Flight, a Concorde and its passengers are transported thousands of years back in time, and they encounter a wizened Arabian wizard named Kalid.  Kalid turns out to be the Master in disguise, utilizing the psychic power of a group of aliens called the Xeraphin.  Looking back, there is no reason whatsoever that the Master needed to assume the identity of Kalid in the first place, and this was never explained.  As a child I never saw that hole, and even now it doesn't stop the fun.
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2014, 12:53:49 AM »

SPOILERS

The fact that Jack Harkness is the Face of Boe. Even though...

  • -The Face or Boe is a giant alien head thing.
  • -Jack is immortal and yet the Face of Boe dies.
  • -There was not even a single hint he was the Face of Boe.
  • -Did I mention the giant alien head thing? Because it still doesn't make sense.
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