150 Years Ago Today . . .

[indianasmith]

150 years ago today, shortly before midnight, America's greatest President was cut down by a cowardly assassin. Having presided over the greatest crisis in the history of the nation with a courage, determination and political skill that none could have predicted given his humble origins, Abraham Lincoln took his wife to the theater in a brief effort at relaxation before facing up to the grim realities of Reconstruction. The war had been hard on the Lincolns personally – this man who despised bloodshed forced to preside over the bloodiest war in American history, he and his wife lost their 10 year old son Willie to a wasting fever, and then the President had to watch as his wife went almost mad with grief for nearly a year. He had been vilified in the press, demonized in the South, and disobeyed by his generals. But sustained by an abiding faith in God and in the Constitution, he had done the unthinkable: defeated the greatest civil insurrection in Western history, at the stroke of a pen liberated four million men, women, and children from bondage, and then he had used every bit of political clout at his disposal to get the Thirteenth Amendment through Congress before the War ended, to ensure that no Federal Judge could ever order the freedmen back into slavery.
 He would be sorely missed in days to come. His death handed the Presidency to one of the worst leaders in American history, “a hater when the nation needed a healer,” Andrew Johnson. Reconstruction would ultimately fail in its goal of establishing equality for blacks throughout the nation. But the memory of the Great Emancipator lived on, and one hundred years after his death a descendant of slaves would finish the work he began. Rest in Peace, President Lincoln. You are not forgotten.

[Allhallowsday]

I just came over here this minute to start this very thread..., but not surprisingly, my friend Indianasmith has remembered our greatest president.  I am an admirer of a few of our presidents, but ABRAHAM LINCOLN was the United States of America's greatest president.  

Indeed, ABRAHAM LINCOLN is not forgotten. 

[A_Dubya]

RIP

[lester1/2jr]

well you knooooow... never mind

[dean]

Let us never forget that Kevin Sorbo is one of the highly esteemed actors to have played Lincoln in their career. Truly it must be an honor for Abe to have been played by a man such as Hercules.

[Trevor]

150 years ago today, shortly before midnight, America's greatest President was cut down by a cowardly assassin. Having presided over the greatest crisis in the history of the nation with a courage, determination and political skill that none could have predicted given his humble origins, Abraham Lincoln took his wife to the theater in a brief effort at relaxation before facing up to the grim realities of Reconstruction. The war had been hard on the Lincolns personally – this man who despised bloodshed forced to preside over the bloodiest war in American history, he and his wife lost their 10 year old son Willie to a wasting fever, and then the President had to watch as his wife went almost mad with grief for nearly a year. He had been vilified in the press, demonized in the South, and disobeyed by his generals. But sustained by an abiding faith in God and in the Constitution, he had done the unthinkable: defeated the greatest civil insurrection in Western history, at the stroke of a pen liberated four million men, women, and children from bondage, and then he had used every bit of political clout at his disposal to get the Thirteenth Amendment through Congress before the War ended, to ensure that no Federal Judge could ever order the freedmen back into slavery.
 He would be sorely missed in days to come. His death handed the Presidency to one of the worst leaders in American history, “a hater when the nation needed a healer,” Andrew Johnson. Reconstruction would ultimately fail in its goal of establishing equality for blacks throughout the nation. But the memory of the Great Emancipator lived on, and one hundred years after his death a descendant of slaves would finish the work he began. Rest in Peace, President Lincoln. You are not forgotten.

How accurate is Bill O'Reilly's Killing Lincoln, Indy? That book had me riveted and I thought I knew a lot, having studied the Civil War in high school. Turns out I didn't know much.

[indianasmith]

I caught a few minor inaccuracies, but overall it was a well done telling of the tale with some literary license taken as to what folks were thinking.  He gave some credence to the "Stanton did it" conspiracy theory which no credible historian takes seriously.

[Trevor]

I caught a few minor inaccuracies, but overall it was a well done telling of the tale with some literary license taken as to what folks were thinking.  He gave some credence to the "Stanton did it" conspiracy theory which no credible historian takes seriously.

He made me go  with three words describing a battle: "Bullets pierce eyes." Yikes.

[indianasmith]

My favorite Lincoln book is TEAM OF RIVALS - absolute brilliant storytelling.
I also love the one I am reading right now: RISE TO GREATNESS: ABRAHAM LINCOLN AND AMERICA'S MOST PERILOUS YEAR

[lester1/2jr]

[Allhallowsday]

There are apparently many arguments against LINCOLN's presidency.  My own father stated that the reason for the Civil War was "economics".  I am still left with LINCOLN was an abolitionist, politician, and one who hated slavery.  He died for his beliefs. 

[indianasmith]

I can understand Lester' libertarian point of view about Lincoln, even though I vehemently disagree.
Les is still  a person of good will who can rationally defend his admittedly unpopular interpretation.
However, I extend no such understanding to one old high school classmate of mine who bashes Lincoln
non-stop, calling him "more evil than Hitler" and wishing Booth had gotten to him four years earlier
"so Andrew Johnson would have been President."  (I tried explaining that, in Lincoln's first term, his Vice
President was not Johnson but Hannibal Hamlin, a Massachusetts abolitionist, but he is impervious
to facts as he is to his own racism!)

In this case, I think the roughly 90% of historians who rank Lincoln at the top of all our Presidents are right.
But it's nice to have a forum where we can have these discussion without them turning into flame wars.

[ulthar]

There are apparently many arguments against LINCOLN's presidency.  My own father stated that the reason for the Civil War was "economics".  I am still left with LINCOLN was an abolitionist, politician, and one who hated slavery.  He died for his beliefs. 

The thing is, he was not really an abolitionist.  He used abolition as an expedient to justify the war against secession.  His quotes on this topic and the time line of those quotes are very, very telling.

I'm not sure someone exploiting the emotion of abolition for political expedient is as worthy of respect as an abolitionist that people give him.  But, I'm sure THAT statement will get twisted somehow into "ulthar favors slavery," logic be thrown to the crapper.

Was he wrong to use abolition?  That's a separate question.  It is certainly debatable.  Slavery is the embodiment of evil in the human heart.

The bigger question is: "Can such a topic be debated objectively and fairly?"  If Lincoln is the hero history assumes him to be, that would be a question he would answer "Yes."  Right? Or do you suppose he would suppress the debate?

(For the record...I ask the same question: Can Hilter/Nazism be discussed objectively?  That's not me being a Holocaust denier or Nazi sympathizer or any such rot.  It's an intellectual question regarding objectivity).

[ulthar]

a person of good will who can rationally defend his admittedly unpopular interpretation.

"Unpopular" has no place in a discussion of what was historical fact, of course.

But, I see that you did address (while I was posting it) my fundamental question regarding objectivity and the importance of 'free debate.'

And, for the record...just in case...I do not condone the assassination of Lincoln on "Southern Principles" or any other reason for that matter. While I have some questions regarding his political motivations for the war, I will concede that his murder was a cowardly and dishonorable act.

[lester1/2jr]

I don't see Lincoln from either the normal view or the revisionist view. It's all part of the complicated nature of our history.  slavery was not acceptable in western civilization by the mid 1800's and as it had rooted itself very deeply in our economy, wall St was built on the cotton trade, it was going to be very difficult to deal with it. Lincoln, with the help of Ulysses Grant of course, pulled it off. He ended slavery which is an unqualified good thing.

A lot of other stuff happened though. Namely half a million people, almost none of whom had anything to do with the slave trade, died. That's a lot of dead Americans.  and there were economics too, though maybe not to the extent that some believe. Why did the North keep raising tariffs? Why not eliminate them completely if they were allegedly so desperate to keep the union together. It's been years since I read some of this stuff so I'm a little rusty.

One thing I've noticed is in movies, especially old movies, when they show a police station they often have a painting of Lincoln behind the desk. The Communist party USA had a huge picture of Lincoln onstage in a picture I saw the other day. He represents a very powerful central authority and that can be good or bad or both.