Who should be the next president?

[lester1/2jr]

I don't see how all this personality talk plays out policy wise. Who cares if the guy is rude if he has good ideas. George w Bush was a "good man" who killed thousands of people in an unnecessary war and made our country the laughing stock of the world. gold went from 250 an ounce to like 1000 thats just pure inflation and fear. Katrina, Abu ghraib, he couldn't even speak properly but he allegedly went to church so that makes up for it? actions speak louder than words, Peopel around the world are going to hate the President of america anyway

If trumps brings manufacturing back that will have a positive effect on the opiod epidemic and if he serves notice to our alleged allies that they have to defend themselves or at least chip in for their own protection that will have positive ramifications as well. "Why are borrowing from China to defend the rest of Asia from China?" - PJ BUchanan

and obviously he knows a thing or two about business look what he's built.

[Leah]

Since you asked, Skull:

Thanks  :)


I don't think we are ever going to an agreement... but I'm please that you post this. It does give me a good idea in understanding your standing. Although, you have the right... My focus is not to change your opinion but to address this for others to see and give them a chance to judge.

OK - Arrogance:  His constant insistence that he and he alone can solve every problem, fix every crisis, that he is the "greatest" at everything he does - even his insistence that he is "more humble than most people know."  (CLUE: Humble people don't brag about their humility.)  His constant lies ("thousands of Muslims celebrating in the streets and on the rooftops in NJ on 9/11") and his insistence that his statements are true, even when they are proved otherwise.  He is Goebbel's "big lie" personified.

There was Muslims celebrating of the fall of the Twin Towers.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogNdQ-CSQww



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4


I'm not sure who had proven Trump wrong? I know the media spin this for a few weeks then suddenly we got youtube videos showing that Trump was correct. (Did you fall asleep when this happen? Or did the media stop spinning and fail to correct themselves.)


Goebbels as in Joesph Goebbels (you do know calling a Trump a Nazi looses the argument because you are calling his supporters NAZIS) I'm said it many times... if Trump is a Nazi - show me proof. Don't just say it because the terrorist (who are muslims) are not like the Jews in  1930's. There is no connection. Also the Muslims in the middle east was on the side of the Nazis in the 1930's.

There were a few people celebrating, particularly Palestinians. There are also people who say that Hitler did nothing wrong, and that the Holocaust wasn't real. There are bad people in the world, we shouldn't condemn a population of people when a smaller proportion is the cause to be angry at.

The second part of Nazis though, I do hope you are sincere about that and aren't serious about what you said way back in the thread about Obama having death trains and is like Hitler.

Ignorance:  Well, here you have a guy who doesn't understand that Presidents don't "reign."  He has used that term repeatedly to describe the administration of his predecessors.  Kings reign, Presidents preside.  Calling the TPTP (I may have that acronym wrong) a concession to China when, in fact, it was an attempt to limit China's financial influence in the Pacific.  Virtually everything he says about American government and the Constitution is factually flawed, and betrays a true ignorance of how our system of government works.

I've been hearing lots of talk about the TPP. Trump stands in the position of thinking it's bad because China has been taking advantage of the deal. Is it good or bad? (that's why debates are necessary).


As for Kings reign... Hmmm... President Bush and President Bush (and another Bush running for president)... President Clinton and President *Clinton.* Doesn't this sound like a reign?

What about Obama making laws and taking out parts of the laws [Healthcare]. Or what Obama blackmailing the schools "You must have transgender bathrooms or no federal funding" Or Obama 'amnesty' for illegal immigrant minors (you know the reason why we have trains loaded with children crossing the borders) Or what about Obama coming out and saying that "Trump is not fit to run for president" (we never had a president that done this before). I swear Obama has been playing King for almost 8 years.

Sadly because our education system sucks ass - most of the voters think a president is doing a good job because they act like kings (Obama good approval ratings) or maybe too many Americans think everything sucks because of Bush (even though He's has not been in office for almost 8 years). Though I don't know what the rhinos were smoking to think that Jeb Bush had a shot to be president; and I say that because I do know most of the Americans still think our problem is because of Bush.

Evil:  First of all, Ulthar, WORDS promote actions, and words that are evil promote evil deeds.

lol... I saw that mistake. The most vile thing I heard was Hillary and Obama saying the Benghazi attack was caused by a video and they arrested the film maker. This is beyond evil because the president and secetary of state pointed a finger and arrested somebody to cover-up their mistake. And without due process. But that's how Obama rolls. Due process most be something that he fail in class; because he was quick on calling Darren Wilson a racist police officer even though Darren Wilson was proven that he did act correctly in shooting Michael Brown. (Ok Obama didn't actually call Wilson a racist but he strongly implied those words - so yes evil can be expressed by words spoken)

There could have been no Holocaust without Hitler's speeches in the 1920's.

I don't think Hitler originally expressed the killing of the Jews in his speeches. I could be wrong but I swear one of the biggest conflict with the German's Jews was they didn't know - and most of the Germans didn't know publicly. Sure I could be wrong; and I'll be ok if you can correct me on this - this is one of those things I would enjoy reading.  

Here you go my good sir. http://www.hitler.org/speeches/

For us there are only two possiblities: either we remain German or we come under the thumb of the Jews. This latter must not occur; even if we are small, we are a force. A well-organized group can conquer a strong enemy. If you stick close together and keep bringing in new people, we will be victorious over the Jews.

And finally we were also the first to point the people on any large scale to a danger which insinuated itself into our midst - a danger which millions failed to realize and which will nonetheless lead us all into ruin - the Jewish danger. And today people are saying yet again that we were 'agitators.' I would like here to appeal to a greater than I, Count Lerchenfeld. He said in the last session of the Landtag that his feeling 'as a man and a Christian' prevented him from being an anti-Semite. I SAY: MY FEELING AS A CHRISTIAN POINTS ME TO MY LORD AND SAVIOUR AS A FIGHTER. IT POINTS ME TO THE MAN WHO ONCE IN LONELINESS, SURROUNDED ONLY BY A FEW FOLLOWERS, RECOGNIZED THESE JEWS FOR WHAT THEY WERE AND SUMMONED MEN TO THE FIGHT AGAINST THEM AND WHO, GOD'S TRUTH! WAS GREATEST NOT AS SUFFERER BUT AS FIGHTER. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and of adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before - the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago - a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people.

To me, the moment that crystallized it all was Trump's mocking of a disabled reporter. For a man with incredible wealth and power already, seeking to become the most powerful man on earth, to stoop to mocking someone's disability, shows a complete and utter lack of conscience or morals.

Ok that's fair. I had not see this but I heard about this incident. I don't see it being evil... Stupid, sure... Funny, sure (I guess if Trump was a comedian it won't be seen as an issue)... Obama once said he bowling score was bad that he could compete against special Olympics (I took it was a funny comment but others were offended - but I don't think what Obama said was evil either)

On the other hand, if Trump said the disable reporter should be shot - well that would be evil.

But I'll give you a half a point because it seemed that you are offended by Trump's stupid comment.

Trump's speeches range from serious to are you serious I'll grant you that.

And then there is his statement that we have to "go after the families" of terrorists.  Killing women and children because of who they are related to is what is generally referred to as "evil."

Please note that the media had made it look like Trump is going to have soldiers running into the Terrorist homes and shooting up innocent 5 year-old and new born babies...  

It shows that you have little understanding the Islamic Terrorist. Most and I'm willing to say 99% of the terrorist are all family members. It's hard to believe but this hatred is raised from generation to generation to generation. Brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers... (as I said if the FBI treated the terrorist like the Manson Family - the terror attacks will end in a year)

For example, 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting, Omar Mateen [oddly it was reported that he did cheer in the 911 twin tower attack] his father happens to have a questionable history (I've posted this on this thread).

I'm not sure about "It shows that you have little understanding the Islamic Terrorist." is a valid argument, when you follow it up with " It's hard to believe but this hatred is raised from generation to generation to generation." is your supporting argument, because that means that the children are born evil, raised evil, live evil.

As for Trump's wild, enthusiastic support among a large segment of the American population, it simply proves to me the truth of a quote attributed to Alexander Hamilton:  "Your mob, sir, is one great beast!"  Trump's success proves to me that a large percentage of our people have become  a very angry, ignorant, bigoted mob.I have said it before:  If Donald Trump is the very best thing that the GOP has to offer America, we deserve to lose.  In fact, we deserve to be curb-stomped a la AMERICAN HISTORY X.  

Well the mob is angry because the republicans created this mob. If the republicans did what they promised in 2014 we wouldn't be voting for Trump to be the wrecking ball.

Also I do feel a little offended that you calling the mob bigoted... I'm no bigot.

I do believe he was referring to the people who are in the extreme side who are racists and bigots.

[ulthar]

As for Trump's wild, enthusiastic support among a large segment of the American population,

You mean, the voters, of course.  How DARE the proletariat of this great country speak out with their votes!  Am I right?

Trump's success proves to me that a large percentage of our people have become  a very angry, ignorant, bigoted mob.

That is one of the most illogical, unsupportable statements I think I have ever seen in my life.  Do tell: how can Trump's success PROVE that our population is an ignorant, bigoted mob?  As a trained scientist skilled in dialectic discourse, I really want to hear this.

And you call Trump's supporters the bigots?  Do you ACTUALLY know what that term means or do you just throw it out like some softer version of calling people that disagree with you "Nazi"?  

I'll give you that people are angry (at the one-party system masquerading as two parties), but you have no basis whatsoever to call Trump's supporters, as a group, either ignorant or bigoted.  Or a "mob."  Calling them such undermines whatever points you think you are making; your "argument" has become laughably weak rhetoric.

He won the primary election in the party in which he chose to run.  He was chosen by the voters in that party.  Why is that so threatening to you?  Why the need to attack those that support him, just because you don't?  (For clarity, I did NOT vote for Trump in the primary).

Until you've read the following book (or understand the principles outlined in there), you really can't speak intelligently about Trump's winning the nomination:

https://www.amazon.com/Cuckservative-How-Conservatives-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B018ZHHA52#navbar

Without understanding the failures of "Conservatives" in contemporary politics, Trump's rise will CERTAINLY seem like nothing but a bigoted fueled fluke perpetrated by the unwashed masses.

Couple of reviews of that book:

https://ricochet.com/book-review-cuckservative/

and

http://thedeclination.com/book-review-cuckservative/

The GOP is being "replaced" for a reason.  Being in denial of that does not either change the fact that it is happening, nor does it make it 'wrong.'

[kakihara]

trump is NOT evil. clinton is. I want to be clear that in my mind there is very little difference between republicans and democrats. To me they are two sides of the same coin. We have been watching the clintons for about 30 years. It has been a steady stream of corruption, scandals, and dead bodies. yes, this is true, the evidence is out there if you are willing to look for it ,though misinformation has made it more difficult in recent years. She is a contradiction of everything she and the democratic party claim to stand for. The Republicans have done nothing to oppose the Democrats, espescially obamacare! These elite "families" go to the same schools and are members of the same clubs.   This doesnt mean that trump is an angel. He potentialy could be a very bad president, even if he gets elected there will be so much opposition to him that any good intentions by him would get derailed.  So what if he doesnt act "presidential"? Would you trust him more if he carried hot-sauce? Talked in a fake southern accent? Maybe a transgender bathroom? We need jobs, we need security, we need low taxes, and we need change. Dont believe what the current president says: all is not well. Any adult who has a family to take care of understands this. If your not concerned or angry about the current state, you should be.

BIGOTRY -  this is  one of the trendiest words this year. I think its funny how someone is accused of being a bigot and attacked for  having a view that is different .
RACISM - trump has never said anything rascist though he could be called racially insensitive.
ARROGANT - ok, i cant argue with that one.
NAZI - really, that makes no sense.

[Allhallowsday]

Ulthar, you are a bright talented person who is also out of control.  I continue to read postings to which you respond and start hurling insults, or, seem to take the poster's remarks as personal.  You just went after one of the nicest guys on this forum (whom I often disagree with).  You may have had many good points about TRUMP; certainly how he has rocked the Republican party.  You should however refrain from invective to those who disagree with you.  Perhaps you'll respond to me this time, but it is absurd that you condemn someone for failing to respond adequately when you have continually ignored my pointed questions and remarks directed at you.  That must be that "trained scientist" you've crowed about... once again. 


Kakihara:  I don't agree with everything you assert, but you write well enough.  I don't think Indy made the "nazi" remark. 

[ulthar]

snip a bunch of nonsensical Speech Policing and Shaming Attempts

Here's an exercise for you:  Name one single "personal insult" leveled at Indy in my last post.  One.

Hint: You will need to separate attacks on his statements and points from "personal" insults.  Can you do it?

Exercise #2:

Why is Indy's assertion that "Trump supporters are ignorant bigots, ulthar is a Trump supporter, therefore, the implication is ulthar is an ignorant bigot" allowed under your "Rules of Proper Discourse" but pointing out that first statement is factually incorrect is not allowed?

There's this thing called "Intellectual Honesty."  If you are going to address me and expect any kind of respect at all in return, please address the points I make in honest debate, not simply "You are a meanie and I don't think you play nice."

So long as all you bring to the discussion is attempts at shaming to stop me from speaking my mind, I'll continue to hold your participation with the contempt that such behavior deserves.  That choice is yours to make.

At least Indy is trying to have a real, grown-up discussion.  That's rather refreshing.

[ulthar]

In a total serendipity moment, I just happened to run across this while browsing a blogger's twitter feed.  Seemed relevant.   

[indianasmith]

This has been bugging me for the last 5 pages or so of this endless thread.

WHAT THE HECK IS AN SJW????

[kakihara]

SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR.

[lester1/2jr]

 If i see SJW or cuckservative i tend to tune out. it seems like a lot of right wing guys like talking to each other rather than trying to engage others

[Allhallowsday]

In a total serendipity moment, I just happened to run across this while browsing a blogger's twitter feed.  Seemed relevant.  

Yeh?  You don't think that that is what YOU are doing?  I haven't seen anyone, "SJW" or otherwise, do such a thing to you.  

By the way, no one used the phrase "personal insults"... except you.  

[JaseSF]

I think voters should just choose None of the Above....

[Jim H]

This has been bugging me for the last 5 pages or so of this endless thread.

WHAT THE HECK IS AN SJW????

Know Your Meme has a pretty solid definition and history of the term. 
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/social-justice-warrior

Social Justice Warrior is a pejorative label applied to bloggers, activists and commentators who are prone to engage in lengthy and hostile debates against others on a range of issues concerning social injustice, identity politics and political correctness. In contrast to the social justice blogosphere at large, the stereotype of a social justice warrior is distinguished by the use of overzealous and self-righteous rhetorics, as well as appealing to emotions over logic and reason.

I have a friend who knows a great deal of people who are examples of the above description (I see stuff from Facebook like the above any time I look at it), there's a number of them out there.  But, I've also noticed in the past year or so the term is starting to be used on such a broad swathe of people it's becoming meaningless.

[Allhallowsday]

Really?  Does that mean Ulthar thinks I'm a Social Justice Warrior?  Cool.   I always wanted to be a warrior... but didn't know I was involved in a "lengthy" debate.  I consider Ulthar my friend, though, he's a bit embarrassed I guess.        I don't know.  I'm embarrassed. 

[ulthar]

Yeh?  You don't think that that is what YOU are doing?  

Nice Tu quoque fallacy.  I'll give you props for never disappointing.   

Who have I tried to silence or shame?  Man, you need to get your facts straight.  I WELCOME the discussion.  I ain't the one policing HOW people say what they need to say.