To the perpetrators of the horror in Manchester & London

[kakihara]

The "religion of piece" strikes again. Just remember, this is all of our faults because we were not nice to these people. If we had been more accepting and more compassionate, this wouldnt have happened. We need to focus on the real victims, muslims. These poor people are force to come from 3rd world countries and live in civilized communities. Whole families are forced to live on gov assistance with paid education and  medical expenses. Its horrible and no human should have to live in a better place and have things like food, smart phones and designer clothing. We should all wear hijabs to show solidarity.

[ER]

When Theresa May said, "Enough is enough!" I thought....what an insult to the victims of previous murder sprees at Moslem hands to suggest the other times were within some sort of acceptable limits, but now it's reached levels of the unacceptable.

All I see arising from this most recent ("most recent" for how long?) act of would-be genocidal murder are pictures of people hugging one another in front of stacks of flowers. That is how you collectively respond to an earthquake, not to an attack on your culture by followers of an ideology that has declared war on you.

In World War Two, after Pearl Harbor, there was a popular saying used all across America: "Put some hate in your heart." Boy Scouts said it, mayors of cities said it, Fibber McGee said it on the radio, people were proud to say it, and it motivated a mindset that got business done and won the biggest war ever waged. Even Colin Powell used that expression when advising the Air Force to bomb the retreating Iraqi forces during the Persian Gulf War.

Maybe it's good advice for today, and we should see fewer images of hugs and flowers and the holding of hands, and register some hate in our hearts toward people who clearly hate us. Even Jesus employed righteous anger, after all.

PS I was reading how smallpox is striking Saint Paul, Minnesota for the first time in living memory, and was traced back to an immigrant community. Yet another side effect of allowing masses of Third World people into our nation, they bring in diseases that were largely wiped out here in the First World. So along with terrorism we get disease outbreaks. Great.

Our ethnomasochistic weakness is just the gift that keeps on giving.

[Pacman000]

My goodness! Smallpox's back!!? I thought it was gone for good; extinct except some lab samples. 

[Alex]

Got a work trip to London next month. We are going on a staff ride and going to be visiting places like the underground complex where Churchill and the cabinet worked during WW2 as well as Imperial War Museum and visiting various memorials connected to the airforce which will take us past the area the attacks took place in.

I grew up with the IRA blowing up parts of London, and their annual targetting of people doing Christmas shopping. It was Christians killing people back then, it's Muslims now. Not sure I can see the difference between one group and the other. I am very confident though that since these actions didn't work for other terrorists back then, they aren't going to work for them now. I know they haven't managed to put me off going there.

[ER]

Got a work trip to London next month. We are going on a staff ride and going to be visiting places like the underground complex where Churchill and the cabinet worked during WW2 as well as Imperial War Museum and visiting various memorials connected to the airforce which will take us past the area the attacks took place in.

I grew up with the IRA blowing up parts of London, and their annual targetting of people doing Christmas shopping. It was Christians killing people back then, it's Muslims now. Not sure I can see the difference between one group and the other. I am very confident though that since these actions didn't work for other terrorists back then, they aren't going to work for them now. I know they haven't managed to put me off going there.

The IRA wasn't killing in the name of religion, no matter how much it sometimes seemed they were, that's one reason. By the late 1990s the IRA had only 200 "soldiers" loyal to its leadership, which was a huge secret they were terrified of getting out (HEY, IRA, f**k YOU, I just told) Islam numbers a billion, counts nuclear-armed nations in its fold, and if even 1% of its people are faithful enough to do as Mohammad instructed them as far as killing in Allah's name, that's ten million potential warriors, not two-hundred. Hitler never had nukes or anything like 10,000,000 soldiers, and look at the harm he did.

Also the IRA does not seek to destroy western civilization, in fact it doesn't have a clear directive at all, it is a bastard stepchild of anachronistic, failed ideas that neither Dublin nor Belfast nor London cared to embrace, that's another difference.

But they both specialize in sneak-murdering unarmed civilians for some of the worst reasons in human history, the IRA going back a century, Islam 1400 years, so yeah, they do have much in common.

On paper Islam also has a better retirement plan, the virgins in paradise instead of hiding out p**s-drunk in Manchester the rest of your days, pretending to be some second-generation Northern Irish family's long lost uncle from Belfast.

[Alex]

Decided to delete part of this post as I dislike being reminded of that episode. Anyone who needed to read it, read it back when we were having this conversation.

I am not going to go making excuses for any of them. I've lived, worked and fought beside Athists, Christians, Muslims and Sikhs all defending the Western way of life. Equally I've seen people from the same groups determined that everyone who doesn't follow their beliefs should be forced to or killed. Hell, I've met vegan's with that attitude. I don't particularly like Muslims, mostly based from when I was at college with some exhange students and saw how they treated people, to the point where I turned down a teaching posting on the basis that I would be teaching Muslim students. But then again, they are hardly unique in treating other people badly.

Labeling every single one of them as wanting to kill you though scares me more than any combat situation ever has. The world has seen before where that kind of view goes before. If someone is out to hurt or kill people I've sworn to protect I'll do my job to the best of my ability to defend them. But I am not going to assume that because someone seeks to do you harm that automatically means all their friends and relatives also want to kill you.

And yes, there are Muslim nations with nuclear weapons. None of them have used them though.

Anyway, this post has went on a lot longer than I intended so I am going to stop here and say no more on it.

[indianasmith]

I will simply say this: a Christian who kills in the name of Jesus is violating the teachings and example of Jesus by doing so. A Muslim who kills in the name of Muhammad is obeying both the teachings and example of Muhammad when he does so. Christians have done some horrible things in the name of their faith through history - but only when they ignore the teachings of their founder.

[ER]

Ok, this is something I don't generally like to talk about and if anyone gets upset about violence you might want to stop reading. Before I came across this it hadn't even occured to me that people could be so evil to each other. One of the worst things I ever came across as a soldier was a 12 year old African girl. A militia had came through her village and pretty much wiped the place off the map. She'd been raped multiple times before they cut her arms and legs off. They then cut her tongue out and melted a plastic spoon over her eyes to blind her. How she survived long enough to be rescued I have no idea. The militia that carried it out was a Christian one who did it because her village followed a slightly different version of the same religion. I have a friend, Peter who was in peace keeping missions for the UN as part of the Dutch armed forces and he got to see even worse things in Bosnia between both Christian and Muslim militias. Still not seeing a difference between one and the other. Islam might have been killing people for 1400 years, but Christianity has a few hundred years head start on them. And the bible is hardly lacking in acts of genocide (killing the first born, the great flood and so on). I used the IRA as a single example as they were attacking London as well.

I have been in the forces for one month short of 16 years and for all but 7 weeks of that I have been at war with Muslim nations. I have had friends killed and injured in those wars. I've also had ones lost to non Muslim nations. I still don't see any difference between one religion and another when they go out and kill people. What ever reasons they claim they are doing it for, killing is killing and whoever your god is or which ever version you follow when you kill someone I have never seen any deity step in and bring them back.

I am not going to go making excuses for any of them. I've lived, worked and fought beside Athists, Christians, Muslims and Sikhs all defending the Western way of life. Equally I've seen people from the same groups determined that everyone who doesn't follow their beliefs should be forced to or killed. Hell, I've met vegan's with that attitude. I don't particularly like Muslims, mostly based from when I was at college with some exhange students and saw how they treated people, to the point where I turned down a teaching posting on the basis that I would be teaching Muslim students. But then again, they are hardly unique in treating other people badly.

Labeling every single one of them as wanting to kill you though scares me more than any combat situation ever has. The world has seen before where that kind of view goes before. If someone is out to hurt or kill people I've sworn to protect I'll do my job to the best of my ability to defend them. But I am not going to assume that because someone seeks to do you harm that automatically means all their friends and relatives also want to kill you.

And yes, there are Muslim nations with nuclear weapons. None of them have used them though.

Anyway, this post has went on a lot longer than I intended so I am going to stop here and say no more on it.

I meant to say last night, it's admirable that you serve in the RAF as you do, for your career. Those who do, like you, help keep people safe from a lot of threats, often at great risks, so thanks!

[ER]

I will simply say this: a Christian who kills in the name of Jesus is violating the teachings and example of Jesus by doing so. A Muslim who kills in the name of Muhammad is obeying both the teachings and example of Muhammad when he does so. Christians have done some horrible things in the name of their faith through history - but only when they ignore the teachings of their founder.

Indy has that right.

[dean]

Dark Alex, thanks for sharing that story. Horrible stuff.

People can really suck and that goes for every religion/race/ethnicity regardless of whether they're violating the teachings of their faith or not.

But.

More people have died in car accidents yearly than in Terrorist attacks in the UK by an incredibly substantial amount. You're 3 times more likely to be hit by lightning than be in a terrorist incident. Yes it's high profile and visceral and sparks the imagination but the high profile nature, the level of fear and hate it whips up is exactly the point of terrorism in the first place.

Keep Calm and Carry On.  

[ER]

More people have died in car accidents yearly than in Terrorist attacks in the UK by an incredibly substantial amount. You're 3 times more likely to be hit by lightning than be in a terrorist incident. Yes it's high profile and visceral and sparks the imagination but the high profile nature, the level of fear and hate it whips up is exactly the point of terrorism in the first place.

That's exactly what I told the victims of the Penn State molestation scandal! Quit complaining, don't you know car wrecks hurt more young people than perverted football coaches???? What's wrong with all the whiners? Toughen up....

[dean]

More people have died in car accidents yearly than in Terrorist attacks in the UK by an incredibly substantial amount. You're 3 times more likely to be hit by lightning than be in a terrorist incident. Yes it's high profile and visceral and sparks the imagination but the high profile nature, the level of fear and hate it whips up is exactly the point of terrorism in the first place.

That's exactly what I told the victims of the Penn State molestation scandal! Quit complaining, don't you know car wrecks hurt more young people than perverted football coaches???? What's wrong with all the whiners? Toughen up....

Well I don't know that controversy but I can't imagine anyone saying 'ban all football coaches' because of that incident, as terrible as it sounds...