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March 28, 2024, 11:41:37 PM
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Alex
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2018, 03:46:38 PM »



I got news for you. No matter what governing idelogical belief you have- the guy at the bottom is gonna get f**ked.

Never a truer word spoken my friend.
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But do you understand That none of this will matter Nothing can take your pain away
ER
B-Movie Kraken
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Karma: 1754
Posts: 13425


The sleep of reasoner breeds monsters. (sic)


« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2018, 03:47:08 PM »

I dunno...socialized health care, child care for the poor, and Social Security seems like good things to me.

I get Social Security. I also paid into it all my working life-and taxes.

I got news for you. No matter what governing idelogical belief you have- the guy at the bottom is gonna get f**ked.

Yes, true, but at least here the guy at the bottom can give the government the finger, which people can't in a lot of other places.
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What does not kill me makes me stranger.
ER
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 1754
Posts: 13425


The sleep of reasoner breeds monsters. (sic)


« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2018, 03:53:45 PM »

Also don't let the word "Socialist" in National Socialist Party fool you. Nazism started out as a leftist party with socialist roots but it went far right into the zone of reactionary politics, just (and I do not know why) held onto the original name.  Ironically Nazis weren't socialists.

Just like 'Democracy' turned into 'Monopoly', where the whoever has the most money and owns the most property wins.

Oh, yeah, Democracy is something of a sham, I agree, money talks, money leads, the powers that be divide it all up behind closed doors, BUT a groundswell of public support put a man in the White House in 2016 that the insiders of both major parties did not want there, showing it's not entirely a closed shop. Sure, money fueled Trump but money alone did not get him elected, only made it possible for him to get his message out there and create enthusiasm among people who often felt marginalized. Every step of the way Trump had to battle against insider power, the establishment did not want him, and that shows by voting people do still have a big say in things.

Obama also took the approach in 2008 of connecting with people in ways that stirred up similar enthusiasm and he, this originally lesser-known figure, beat Hillary Clinton, the heir apparent, again showing people do collectively hold the final say over the power brokers of America.

We the people are stronger than you may think.
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What does not kill me makes me stranger.
RCMerchant
Bela
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Posts: 30434


"Charlie,we're in HELL!"-"yeah,ain't it groovy?!"


WWW
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2018, 03:55:10 PM »

I dunno...socialized health care, child care for the poor, and Social Security seems like good things to me.

I get Social Security. I also paid into it all my working life-and taxes.

I got news for you. No matter what governing idelogical belief you have- the guy at the bottom is gonna get f**ked.

Yes, true, but at least here the guy at the bottom can give the government the finger, which people can't in a lot of other places.


Now there's something I can do that will help me! Why didn't I think of that???  Question
Or ask the 'powers that be' to use more Vasoline while it's f**king me in the ass!
And I can s**t in one hand and wish in another!
Do you know what weighs more?

These are the people we elect into office. THAT'S THEY'RE JOB- TO HELP US. We pay them. Out of our taxes.
NOT to line they're pockets .
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 04:07:32 PM by RCMerchant » Logged

"Supernatural?...perhaps. Baloney?...Perhaps not!" Bela Lugosi-the BLACK CAT (1934)
Interviewer-"Does Dracula ever end for you?
Lugosi-"No. Dracula-never ends."

Slobber, Drool, Drip!
https://www.tumblr.com/ronmerchant
Alex
B-Movie Kraken
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Posts: 12606



« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2018, 04:03:19 PM »


Most societies have certain elements of socialism in them, in the US one obvious one is the public education system, a perfect example of the big-spending, wasteful, low results, spirit-crushing effects of letting the government manage something.


Have you seen what happens when these things are run as a business? It does not go well either. Greed and profit end up coming before everything else.
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But do you understand That none of this will matter Nothing can take your pain away
RCMerchant
Bela
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"Charlie,we're in HELL!"-"yeah,ain't it groovy?!"


WWW
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2018, 04:14:43 PM »

I got a New Rule-
Rich people can't run for President.
Only homeless people. Like drunks, crazy shopping cart ladies, and people who talk to themselves while walking down sidewalks carrying plastic bags full of returnable bottles.
Cat ladies, geeks who live in Ma's basement, spinsters, the Frankenstein Monster, and people who are afraid to come out of they're room also are eligible.
 
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 04:20:20 PM by RCMerchant » Logged

"Supernatural?...perhaps. Baloney?...Perhaps not!" Bela Lugosi-the BLACK CAT (1934)
Interviewer-"Does Dracula ever end for you?
Lugosi-"No. Dracula-never ends."

Slobber, Drool, Drip!
https://www.tumblr.com/ronmerchant
ER
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 1754
Posts: 13425


The sleep of reasoner breeds monsters. (sic)


« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2018, 04:18:40 PM »


Most societies have certain elements of socialism in them, in the US one obvious one is the public education system, a perfect example of the big-spending, wasteful, low results, spirit-crushing effects of letting the government manage something.


Have you seen what happens when these things are run as a business? It does not go well either. Greed and profit end up coming before everything else.

Greed screws a lot of things up, I know. I think private schools get better results than public.

I also know that when my friend Mandy had her son in 2004 she was a broke soon to be single mother, so she applied for public assistance and had to sit for hours in government-run clinics to get pre-natal care, showing up early for appointments that may or may not be available before the day was out, only to see overworked care-providers who gave the impression they may not have finished high up in medical school.

When she had her daughter a couple years down the road she had private health insurance and her appointments were on time and the overall level of her care was much better. I think her experiences changed my mind when for a lot of my life I wanted socialized medicine here.

I've also, btw, experienced government-backed health care in Ireland and there's good and bad to that. Long waits, wards instead of private rooms, lots of paperwork, but, yes, everyone there did seem to get basic healthcare. (Did you know many Irish get sent to the UK for treatment?)

Neither way is perfect but at least in America if you possibly can you're doing yourself and family a favor to deal with a private insurer system.
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What does not kill me makes me stranger.
Alex
B-Movie Kraken
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2018, 04:30:03 PM »

In the UK you still have the option of private healthcare, but it is not widely taken up, although some companies do offer it as part of their T&C's. I've seen my little brother get a kidney transplant, my mother survive breast cancer and many other people go through the healthcare system without the waiting times I keep hearing about on the news. I am not saying they aren't happening, but my experience of the health system certainly hasn't included it. Plus, well lets face it news sources do like to exagerate these things leading me to the conclussion these things aren't as bad as things are made out to be (although I do accept I could be wrong there).
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 04:33:16 PM by Dark Alex » Logged

But do you understand That none of this will matter Nothing can take your pain away
ER
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 1754
Posts: 13425


The sleep of reasoner breeds monsters. (sic)


« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2018, 04:34:40 PM »

Yeah, I remember on Eastenders someone would brag about an upcoming operation, "I'm having it done off the National Health." I'd think, aww, they're cheating poor Dr. Legg! Lol

 And so my workday ends. May a good evening be with you all!
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What does not kill me makes me stranger.
Alex
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 1556
Posts: 12606



« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2018, 05:32:21 PM »

My experience of the US health care system was that we took Kristi in to hospital in quite some amount of pain. They ran some blood tests, couldn't find out what was wrong and charged us $1000 for the privillage.

When she went to see her own doctor back in the UK, he identified the problem just from the description of the symptoms and gave her the approrpiate medication.

This was two years ago. Our health insurance company has had to send yet another letter to the hospital concerned telling them to stop pursuing Kristi for the money and to send the bill to them and let them pay it. Ok, this is a one off incident, and hardly conclusive but so far I have to say I am not impressed. Kristi herself agrees that there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods of providing care, however on balance she much prefers the social healthcare system.
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But do you understand That none of this will matter Nothing can take your pain away
indianasmith
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
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Karma: 2591
Posts: 15182


A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2018, 06:33:17 PM »

Health care is complicated, all systems that deliver it are flawed in one way or another, and there are no easy solutions.

That ties into my basic philosophy that bumper stickers rarely make good policy.
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"I shall smite you in the nostrils with a rod of iron, and wax your spleen with Efferdent!!"
ER
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 1754
Posts: 13425


The sleep of reasoner breeds monsters. (sic)


« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2018, 07:33:39 PM »

I dunno...socialized health care, child care for the poor, and Social Security seems like good things to me.


But who pays for that? If the poor can't already afford it for themselves then obviously someone else is paying for it.

Who? Productive people who aren't poor. Instead of enjoying what they've worked for they're supporting someone else. Why should they continue to work hard then if the poor get free money?

They shouldn't, so they lose the motivation to work hard, become poor, get supported.

By whom? Who remains? "Rich people"? No, they were the first to get hit with high taxes, so their money drains first. The middle class? Absent opportunity and motive to be productive, the middle class is gone.

Now where's the money coming from if society has become progressively (pun intended) poorer? Nowhere.

Eventually money runs out and you have a mismanaged Venezuela, or the USSR, or etc. and guess what, social programs are bankrupt, poverty has increased and the original poor suffer most of all.

In a nutshell that's why it doesn't work.
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What does not kill me makes me stranger.
Svengoolie 3
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
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Karma: -166
Posts: 5821



« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2018, 08:52:18 PM »

Also don't let the word "Socialist" in National Socialist Party fool you. Nazism started out as a leftist party with socialist roots but it went far right into the zone of reactionary politics, just (and I do not know why) held onto the original name.  Ironically Nazis weren't socialists.

Just like 'Democracy' turned into 'Monopoly', where the whoever has the most money and owns the most property wins.

Oh, yeah, Democracy is something of a sham, I agree, money talks, money leads, the powers that be divide it all up behind closed doors, BUT a groundswell of public support put a man in the White House in 2016 that the insiders of both major parties did not want there, showing it's not entirely a closed shop. Sure, money fueled Trump but money alone did not get him elected, only made it possible for him to get his message out there and create enthusiasm among people who often felt marginalized. Every step of the way Trump had to battle against insider power, the establishment did not want him, and that shows by voting people do still have a big say in things.

Obama also took the approach in 2008 of connecting with people in ways that stirred up similar enthusiasm and he, this originally lesser-known figure, beat Hillary Clinton, the heir apparent, again showing people do collectively hold the final say over the power brokers of America.

We the people are stronger than you may think.

You do knw that the majority of america voters voted against the thing in the wite house, and it has done nthng but serve the rich. When it got it's tax plan passed it told it's rich buddies "I jsut made you al;l a lot ricker". Now, of course, people on SS and medicare are going to be hit with cuts to pay for it.
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The doctor that circumcised Trump threw away the wrong piece.
ER
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 1754
Posts: 13425


The sleep of reasoner breeds monsters. (sic)


« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2018, 09:31:31 PM »

Also don't let the word "Socialist" in National Socialist Party fool you. Nazism started out as a leftist party with socialist roots but it went far right into the zone of reactionary politics, just (and I do not know why) held onto the original name.  Ironically Nazis weren't socialists.

Just like 'Democracy' turned into 'Monopoly', where the whoever has the most money and owns the most property wins.

Oh, yeah, Democracy is something of a sham, I agree, money talks, money leads, the powers that be divide it all up behind closed doors, BUT a groundswell of public support put a man in the White House in 2016 that the insiders of both major parties did not want there, showing it's not entirely a closed shop. Sure, money fueled Trump but money alone did not get him elected, only made it possible for him to get his message out there and create enthusiasm among people who often felt marginalized. Every step of the way Trump had to battle against insider power, the establishment did not want him, and that shows by voting people do still have a big say in things.

Obama also took the approach in 2008 of connecting with people in ways that stirred up similar enthusiasm and he, this originally lesser-known figure, beat Hillary Clinton, the heir apparent, again showing people do collectively hold the final say over the power brokers of America.

We the people are stronger than you may think.

You do knw that the majority of america voters voted against the thing in the wite house, and it has done nthng but serve the rich. When it got it's tax plan passed it told it's rich buddies "I jsut made you al;l a lot ricker". Now, of course, people on SS and medicare are going to be hit with cuts to pay for it.

I'm not talking about my judgment of either candidate I mentioned, just talking about the facts of what made their campaigns successful. My point was the people appear to hold more power over who visibly runs this country than the establishment does, and that makes me proud.
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What does not kill me makes me stranger.
Allhallowsday
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Either he's dead or my watch has stopped!


« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2018, 12:39:31 AM »

Anyone who calls George Soros a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer should be sentenced to ten years in a re-education camp where they can learn the difference between fascism and communism!


There is definitely a corollary between Nazism and Communism... Control.  

« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 12:41:46 AM by Allhallowsday » Logged

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