A question for my American friends.

[Alex]

For those of you who have heard the story of Edward Carter, I was just wondering what your thoughts were on his award.

Personally, I think what he did was fair enough, but then again maybe this kind of thing can only truely be judged by someone who has been in that kind of situation.

[Rev. Powell]

I assume you mean this guy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_A._Carter_Jr.

I wasn't aware of his story until I saw your post and checked Wikipedia.

He sounds like a true American hero who became a victim of McCarthyism and was treated shamefully. Unless there's more to it than just his brief wiki article, I would think to most Americans his story would be cut and dried and not controversial at all. Today McCarthyism (the anti-Communist witch hunt of the 1950s) is generally acknowledged as a sad moment in our history by all sides.

[Svengoolie 3]

I assume you mean this guy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_A._Carter_Jr.

I wasn't aware of his story until I saw your post and checked Wikipedia.

He sounds like a true American hero who became a victim of McCarthyism and was treated shamefully. Unless there's more to it than just his brief wiki article, I would think to most Americans his story would be cut and dried and not controversial at all. Today McCarthyism (the anti-Communist witch hunt of the 1950s) is generally acknowledged as a sad moment in our history by all sides.

Sadly school book in Texass now teach that Joe McCarthy was a patriotic hero,  alsomthomas Jefferson never existed and the civil rights movement was nothing much....

[Alex]

Sorry Rev, but the page you linked comes up with a blank Wikipedia page for me.

It was a story I read last night (sorry but I don't have the link just now), about a man who during WW2 had charged an enemy unit while his comrades were all killed or wounded around him. He single handedly took on either 8 or 10 Germans, killing all but two of them who he took prisoner.

Anyway, he was awarded one of the highest medals you can get in the US, but it has been since revealed that as he headed back to his own lines with his prisoners, he used them as a shield to stop himself being shot by the Germans and there are apparently now calls for him to be stripped of his award for committing a war crime for using POW's to protect himself.

To me, using them in that fashion just seems like good sense. I am just interested in how people from his own country feel about it. From the way the article was written I got the impression that the attempt to remove his award was a more recent thing than the McCarthy era, so I am not sure if we are talking about the same person or not?

[Trevor]

Dad served in the British South Africa Police Reserve during the Rhodesian War and he hardly ever talked about his time there, except for one time when he told me that he regularly shot terrorists who they found on the wrong side of the fence when they were patrolling. He did this to keep people safe so I have no issues with what he did.

[Alex]

Found the page I'd been reading last night so http://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/moh-recipient-break-rules.html?fbclid=IwAR2_Kbm866rPoCCNAjRVMzAasZQv4-2W3ZW1a1vni7gTAgUVT0dZujIKrQA

The reason I posted this, is that I was recently in a brief on the current rules of warfare, and was thinking that for various reasons the rules in some areas had went too far and that we'd now be putting our own lifes at a much higher risk by trying to follow them. Reading this one just piqued my curiosity about what people in other countries thought about things.

[ER]

The loathing that McCarthyism engendered overshadowed the rarely acknowledged truth that the Soviets in the 1950s actually had deeply infiltrated all levels of US society.

Perversely in destroying American desire to weed out valid channels of Soviet intelligence-gathering for a generation afterward, McCarthy ended up being one of the USSR's best friends.

Much as it pains me to say this, the KGB was the best intelligence agency the world ever knew. Its influence remains strong even now.

[ER]

Found the page I'd been reading last night so http://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/moh-recipient-break-rules.html?fbclid=IwAR2_Kbm866rPoCCNAjRVMzAasZQv4-2W3ZW1a1vni7gTAgUVT0dZujIKrQA

The reason I posted this, is that I was recently in a brief on the current rules of warfare, and was thinking that for various reasons the rules in some areas had went too far and that we'd now be putting our own lifes at a much higher risk by trying to follow them. Reading this one just piqued my curiosity about what people in other countries thought about things.

Alex, there's such a strong emphasis in the US military today on being PC that I knew firsthand a situation where a member of the army was receiving a decoration for an act of bravery in combat in Iraq that saved several lives, and when an officer asked him to relate his version of the situation this decorated soldier used the term "dune coons" (which was a ubiquitous name for the opposition) and he was written up at his own award ceremony. I guess killing someone is fine, just don't slander them behind their backs  in a language they don't even speak.

Point is, yes, the man who earned the MoH did the right thing in WWII, and yeah he may well have faced a different reception for it today.

[Svengoolie 3]

OK,  once I saw that he was awarded the MoH by President Bill Clinton I knew this was about conservatives and their extreme fanatical hatred of him and all other people who are not assimilated into their borg. The conservative movement in america wants to wipe out the democratic party and erase everything every democrat has done.  The modern conservative party wants to in their own words "completely erase the Obama presidency".  Likewise they want to undo any and everything bill Clinton did. 

If their god Reagan had done this (Ha!)  they wouldn't have had a problem with it.  But a democrat did it so they want to "erase" an undo it.

[ER]

OK,  once I saw that he was awarded the MoH by President Bill Clinton I knew this was about conservatives and their extreme fanatical hatred of him and all other people who are not assimilated into their borg. The conservative movement in america wants to wipe out the democratic party and erase everything every democrat has done.  The modern conservative party wants to in their own words "completely erase the Obama presidency".  Likewise they want to undo any and everything bill Clinton did. 

If their god Reagan had done this (Ha!)  they wouldn't have had a problem with it.  But a democrat did it so they want to "erase" an undo it.

No doubt what you wrote describes some people on the political right, but do you think it describes most conservatives?

[Svengoolie 3]

OK,  once I saw that he was awarded the MoH by President Bill Clinton I knew this was about conservatives and their extreme fanatical hatred of him and all other people who are not assimilated into their borg. The conservative movement in america wants to wipe out the democratic party and erase everything every democrat has done.  The modern conservative party wants to in their own words "completely erase the Obama presidency".  Likewise they want to undo any and everything bill Clinton did. 

If their god Reagan had done this (Ha!)  they wouldn't have had a problem with it.  But a democrat did it so they want to "erase" an undo it.

No doubt what you wrote describes some people on the political right, but do you think it describes most conservatives?

Maybe not most  but it does describe the ones who matter.

The radical,  extreme,  nationalistic right has taken over the conservative wing in america. They're running the ship,  they matter.  Maybe most conservatives agency quite as rabid as them,  but they don't matter because they have no power in the modern  conservative movement in america.

Look at history.  I'm sure most Germans didn't approve of murdering Jewish and other "undesereable" children.  Their opinions and views anmounted to nothing because the people running Germany wanted to do it,  no one else mattered.

When you look at a country,  a movement,  a group,  etc you have to look at what itcs doing and who's controlling it,  those matter.  The majority of the members don't matter.

[ER]

No, Sven, the conservatives who matter are the everyday people who live respectable inoffensive lives, cast votes according to their conscience, and make it through this difficult existence respecting the traditions that came to be traditions because they were founded in good sense. That describes nearly all conservatives, not the scum you brought up.

[Svengoolie 3]

No, Sven, the conservatives who matter are the everyday people who live respectable inoffensive lives, cast votes according to their conscience, and make it through this difficult existence respecting the traditions that came to be traditions because they were founded in good sense. That describes nearly all conservatives, not the scum you brought up.

No,  they don't matter if they let the lunatic fringe take over and run the party and the country,  they don't matter,  the people who get things done matter.

[ER]

No, Sven, the conservatives who matter are the everyday people who live respectable inoffensive lives, cast votes according to their conscience, and make it through this difficult existence respecting the traditions that came to be traditions because they were founded in good sense. That describes nearly all conservatives, not the scum you brought up.

No,  they don't matter if they let the lunatic fringe take over and run the party and the country,  they don't matter,  the people who get things done matter.

Sven, I say this without malice, but I think for your own happiness and well-being you ought to maybe step away from politics and meet people who don't represent extremism. Look for hope, not pessimism, break the bad habit of finding joy in other people's misery, of seeing badness by default. Maybe take up biking, walking, get out in nature, clear your mind, meditate, seek artifacts by a river, find a spiritual pursuit, find love and start a family, do things that bring peace to the soul, because I don't think life is as drear or dire as you think it is by constantly dwelling in the shadows. The pursuit of happiness is a rewarding goal I highly recommend to anyone but in your case I think it might save your life at some point in the near future. I sincerely wish you luck, but whatever...

[Rev. Powell]

Back on topic...

The wikipedia article will show up if you add a period to the end of the link once you've loaded it (the forum software thinks it's punctuation but it's actually part of the link).

I'd never heard the story in the link you gave, but it seems pretty uncontroversial to me. I don't know the "rules of war," but I'm sure they're not a suicide pact. He was under fire, so using enemy soldiers as a shield was an act of self-preservation. The only objections to using "human shields" I've ever heard of involve civilians. I doubt anyone could make a serious case that Carter did something wrong, unless there are some facts we're not privy to.