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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Going back to nuclear. For or Against? Please keep it civil. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Going back to nuclear. For or Against? Please keep it civil.  (Read 6474 times)
Allhallowsday
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2022, 12:56:52 PM »

I'm gonna go with Morpheus on this one.
More nuclear power is the best way to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels.

Indeed; we really have no choice.
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ralfy
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2022, 12:33:37 AM »

Honey, the word is Malthusian.

Overpopulation is only part of the problem The others are overconsumption per capita, limits to growth, ecological damage, and "black swans."

The first is mitigated by decreasing birth rates but offset by population momentum. The second is driven by combinations of planned obsolescence and competition in private capitalism, both driven by maximization of profit. The third is caused by diminishing returns plus the fourth point. The fourth point is the outcome of the second. The fifth is driven by all factors amplifying each other.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2022, 01:07:50 AM »

Socialism was never intended to be an antidote to human reproduction/ expansion/ etc under capitalism. it was supposed to be BETTER for families and thus lead to way more of them.

Malthusian misanthropy is the "black swan".
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LilCerberus
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« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2022, 03:26:31 PM »

Socialism was never intended to be an antidote to human reproduction/ expansion/ etc under capitalism. it was supposed to be BETTER for families and thus lead to way more of them.

Malthusian misanthropy is the "black swan".

Also competency.
Must keep in mind, it was a communist country cutting corners that lead to the world's largest nuclear disaster.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2022, 03:30:43 PM »

the environmental record of communist and socialist countries is awful in general
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Alex
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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2022, 04:44:19 PM »

the environmental record of communist and socialist countries is awful in general

Sadly very true.
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ralfy
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2022, 08:21:58 PM »

Some argue that environmental problems brought about by manufacturing were outsourced to other countries where environmental protection is decreased in order to lower costs.

That's why industrialized countries became less pollution-free as they shifted to service industries while manufactured goods and in some cases even food are shipped to them. That might also explain why there are environmental problems not only in socialist and communist countries but in non-socialist and non-communist ones, including several in Asia and Africa, where cheap labor is available and where even trash from industrialized countries is dumped.
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El Misfit
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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2022, 10:13:40 PM »

I'm for nuclear power.
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yeah no.
Morpheus, the unwoke.
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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2022, 12:10:12 AM »

the environmental record of communist and socialist countries is awful in general


Well to some people in America, countries like France and Germany are 'socialist'.

China has nothing to do with socialism. China is the kind of system socialism was meant to oppose.  Russia is a failed kratocracy.

Honestly western Europe and scandanavia are the closest things to what I consider actual socialism on earth today.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 12:16:01 AM by Morpheus, the unwoke. » Logged

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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2022, 12:40:46 AM »

Morpheus - one of the first bumper stickers I ever saw was "save the whales". Russia were slaughtering thousands of humpback whales for no discernable reason other than it was a policy. There was no consideration of environmental issues not just there but all throughout the Soveit sphere of influence. even today Venezuelas oil drilling areas are disgusting
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Alex
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« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2022, 07:43:50 AM »

Going back to the 90s, I recall something about a Russian oil pipeline that had quite a severe leak. It was decided that shutting down the pipeline to repair it would be too expensive, so nothing was done about it and the result was a sizable lake of oil that ruined the land around it. There was a fair amount of that kind of thing going on. It was viewed that a hectare of land left unplowed was land wasted. This led directly to a lot of environmental damage. In China, Mao's agricultural policies led to millions starving in famine. The same has happened in other communist countries where they go for collectivisation (although I totally agree with Lester about these countries not really being socialist or even communist. I view them more as variations on dictatorships).
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But do you understand That none of this will matter Nothing can take your pain away
Morpheus, the unwoke.
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« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2022, 07:13:43 PM »

I never said Russia wasn't a bad country for the environment, I just said it was never an actual socialist country. It was never communist or socialist,  from Stalin onward it was a kratocracy, pure and simple.

There was a brief period of hope with Gorbachev but Putin ground that out.

China is trying to green up a bit,  I don't think Russia can. Russia is a very failed state on every level that unfortunately has the ability to say ''hell with it! '' and pull the world down with it it it decides to go out with a bang.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 07:22:25 PM by Morpheus, the unwoke. » Logged

They will come back, come back again, As long as the red earth rolls. He never wasted a leaf or a tree. Do you think he would squander souls?” ― Ruyard Kipling

We all come from the goddess and to her we shall return, like a drop of rain flowing to the ocean.
ralfy
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« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2022, 09:01:00 PM »

About socialism, if it refers to public ownership and regulation, then most economies worldwide are actually socialist, and following up to half of the 10 planks given by Marx in the Manifesto.

And their results can be weird. For example, I think the average economic growth for Nordic countries has decreased as they entered late capitalism. So did countries like Japan and South Korea. Meanwhile,

Cuba, which is one of the only Communist countries in the world, experienced around 10 pct, as its economy quadrupled in size in only twenty years. North Korea, meanwhile, experienced only around 2 pct on ave., similar to that of the U.S. The Philippines, which copies the U.S., has less than 2 pct.

Vietnam, which is market socialist (free market but cooperatives and public corporations) has 5-6 pct, almost twice that of the Philippines and of the U.S. Its current growth rate almost reached 14 pct.

China, which is similar to that of the U.S. except that the government is ruled by a Communist Party that's an active partner in businesses, has a growth rate of around 6-7 pct.

The Asian "tigers" are doing similar to Vietnam, but they have mostly authoritarian regimes.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2022, 01:42:57 AM »

"late capitalism" as an expression that was invented in 1975. Since then, way more countries are capitalist than socialist. so really it was late socialism. the holdouts for this style of govt are Venezuela, North Korea, and Cuba who's major contribution to the world have been immigrants looking for a better situation
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Alex
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« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2022, 07:40:37 AM »

One important thing to remember is that if you are starting from a very low base, then it is very easy to show a high percentile increase.
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But do you understand That none of this will matter Nothing can take your pain away
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