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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  This Pearl Harbor Day « previous next »
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Author Topic: This Pearl Harbor Day  (Read 4819 times)
ER
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« on: December 07, 2022, 08:14:48 AM »

May I break with tradition this Pearl Harbor Day and impart my condolences to the millions of Japanese people who suffered as a result of their warmongering government picking the stupidest fight in the long history of stupid fights. Governments decide and innocent people suffer. War is a terrible thing.
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2022, 05:17:39 PM »

May I break with tradition this Pearl Harbor Day and impart my condolences to the millions of Japanese people who suffered as a result of their warmongering government picking the stupidest fight in the long history of stupid fights. Governments decide and innocent people suffer. War is a terrible thing.

A beautiful sentiment.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2022, 10:04:51 PM »

Yeah, Japan's government made sure that its poor people got the worst buttwhuppin' in the history of buttwhippin's!

As an aside, I did have the chance, about 20 years ago, to have an extended conversation with a gentleman who was not only there at Pearl on that dreadful day, but had a ringside seat for the whole thing.  He was a 14 year old kid, born and raised in Honolulu, who liked to go down to the shipyard on Sunday mornings and climb up into the cockpit of this crane that was often left unlocked.  He'd eat a sandwich and watch the ships come and go, watch the sailors at their duties.  That Sundy morning he'd just climbed up into his perch when a strange looking airplane buzzed right by him - and a ship 100 yards away exploded.  Scared to climb down, he watched the entire attack unfold around him - at one point a Japanese plane flew so close that he made brief eye contact with the pilot!
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2022, 12:13:47 AM »

"buttwhoopin" = thousands of dead children
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ralfy
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2022, 02:16:55 AM »

From what I remember, it started with Japan remaining isolationalist for centuries until American "black ships" arrived and pried it open:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Expedition

At that point Japan realized that it could no longer counter the West unless it also opened up to trade and industrialized. It did, leading to growing strength, and victory during the Battle of Tsushima:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima

That terrified the West because they could never accept the fact that "orientals" could defeat them.

As the West was colonizing several parts of Asia, essentially India itself, and tried to carve up China like a turkey, it began to engage in economic blockades of Japan, prompting it to attack and occupy nearby areas, like Manchuria, to obtain more oil.

Eventually, the Great Depression led to a severe economic crash for various countries, and from which they did not recover, and that included Germany and Japan. In both countries militarism rose, and with massive support from their people, eventually leading to the debacle of WW2.
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2022, 08:44:55 AM »

I knew the US was responsible for Pearl Harbor!
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ER
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2022, 10:06:02 AM »

It's Jefferson's fault!
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2022, 04:54:07 PM »

That FDR knew in advance is just about the worst kept secret in town. If not specifically about the time of the attack then the idea that one was coming.
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LilCerberus
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2022, 06:08:30 PM »

That FDR knew in advance is just about the worst kept secret in town. If not specifically about the time of the attack then the idea that one was coming.

Yes, I understand the Japanese Internment Camps opened up a week before the attack...
And I believe their were American forces fighting for the Chinese about seven months before the attack....
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ER
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The sleep of reasoner breeds monsters. (sic)


« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2022, 07:03:52 PM »

That FDR knew in advance is just about the worst kept secret in town. If not specifically about the time of the attack then the idea that one was coming.


Oh, please, an untruth repeated a million times remains an untruth.  I know you will never be swayed into thinking otherwise, but no, FDR did not knowingly allow Pearl Harbor to be bombed; it robs truth and disregards historical evidence to slander the President and many others by making this claim, which is nothing more than the fluff of conspiracy theorists and those who like to feel they possess some sensationalistic insight into the gnostic.

Allow me to thoroughly waste my time by going full-on ralfy here:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pearl-Harbor-and-the-back-door-to-war-theory-1688287

https://www.npr.org/2016/12/06/504449867/no-fdr-did-not-know-the-japanese-were-going-to-bomb-pearl-harbor

https://vc.bridgew.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1847&context=br_rev

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/archives/pdfs/pearlharbor.pdf

https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/investigations/pearl-harbor.htm





« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 07:43:26 PM by ER » Logged

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indianasmith
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2022, 09:50:00 PM »

I read a book several years ago, written around 1990 by the officer who was personally appointed by FDR to investigate the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
He was still alive 50 years later and wrote the book based on all of his interviews with eyewitnesses, commanders, intelligence officers, etc.
It's late and I can't remember the author or title at the moment, but I'll pull the book from my shelves at work tomorrow and list it.
He points out that America knew war with Japan was likely imminent and was expecting an attack of some sort.  They were not expecting an AIR attack because most experts believed Japan didn't have that capability yet.
But one thing that stands out was that the war department sent out a message, based on the latest decrypts, to all commanders in the Pacific - "War Warning Imminent!"
But the message was not passed on to the commanders at Pearl for over 24 hours, and by that time the attack had already come.
So, in short - we knew something was likely coming.  We didn't know what. And the base commanders were warned to be on alert.
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2022, 12:53:59 AM »

Oh ralfy, give it a rest...
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They will come back, come back again, As long as the red earth rolls. He never wasted a leaf or a tree. Do you think he would squander souls?” ― Ruyard Kipling

We all come from the goddess and to her we shall return, like a drop of rain flowing to the ocean.
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2022, 01:53:31 AM »

" In September, President Franklin D. Roosevelt took steps to increase the American presence in Hawaii and ordered the creation of a Hawaiian Detachment, believing a strong naval presence there would deter Japanese aggression..."

"While journalists in the United States supported the move, agreeing with FDR that it would be a deterrent to the Japanese, many naval officers, Richardson included, disagreed "

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/fdr-bluff-relocating-us-fleet-to-pearl-harbor

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LilCerberus
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2022, 07:10:27 PM »

On 11 December 1941, four days after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and the United States declaration of war against the Japanese Empire, Nazi Germany declared war against the United States
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ralfy
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2022, 08:45:52 PM »

Oh ralfy, give it a rest...

There is no logic in giving critical thinking a rest.

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