Why i hate the Holodeck, and other diversions.

[Flangepart]

Am i the only one who has problims with the cinematic conciet, of the Holodeck? By what ever name it goes, and use it put to, this idea, of a machine that can fake reality "Better then life", has made me think about how badly this concept seem to contridict the Willing Suspension of Dis-belief, that all films rely on. What i.m trying to say is, if you lived in a universe where such things were possaable....woulden't there be lots of people with severe psychological problims? If, Say, Lt. Checkov could be forced aginst his will to kill someone...what mental scars would that lead to? What if its not force...but deception that causes him to do it?  The Holodeck is a (Very dangerious) means of "Creating reality" as you like it. Bad enough how it effects the mental certinty of characters in  the movie, what effect does this have on the audience? For some reason, this all makes me think of the "He's dead, Jim-No he's not!" that comics and movies are notorious for. What i mean is....does this interfear with your ability to take the film seriously? At least as much as it wants to be taken? "Overdrawn at the menory bank", is similar in this idea, i think. Am i makeing sence? I'm trying to get the idea out...........well, its basicly the willingness of the movie to keep you doubting what you see and hear. And that, if it leads to confusion, will not lead to happy campers in the theater seats! (Hrump)....well, i'll leave it at that. What do you think?

[Newt]

Does this not go back to the whole each-of-us-lives-in-his-own-'reality' sophomoric philosophical gag?  Our perceptions shape our reality - and our account and memories of it.   Sooooooo....would not such a world have a huge number of people who have 'opted out' and plugged themselves into a 'better' reality than the one they were born into...sort of the alternative to recreational chemicals...whole racks of people stored in hives...would make for some inventive prison terms, though...?  Spider Robinson and others have written (yeah, printed words!  eeek!) some effective stories concerning this idea...

[J.R.]

I dunno, seems to me if I could hop into any sort of locale or situation anytime I wanted that's where I'd spend all my time. A voluntary Matrix for me, thanks.

[Akira Tubo]

The holodeck is an incredibly stupid thing.  Making light images solid would take a few atom bombs' worth of power.  That power could be better spent, well, anywhere, even in the 24th century.

Basically, as far as ST goes, the holodeck existed just so the writers would have an out if the creative juices weren't flowing.  "We're out of ideas, let's make another 'trapped in the holodeck' episode."  Voyager did that a lot.

Remember when virtual reality was the next big thing?  It just kind of went away, didn't it?  I like to think it's because people realized how dumb it was to think an illusion - that you are aware of - would ever have any power.

I've seen several movies in which people have VR headsets (nothing else, just headsets) put over their eyes and die when the simulation says they should.  These are people who know it's only an illusion.  If that would kill you, watching a movie would kill you!

[Mofo Rising]

Sounds like somebody's ready to read a few Philip K. Dick novels.

Anyway, Virtual Reality went away because it sucked.

Now, if they could get the same idea with the same quality as, say, SOLDIER OF FORTUNE 2, I'd be all for it.  (By the way, what do people think of that new Army game?)

Of course, a lot of critics have problems with "dream logic" movies.  If anything can happen at any time to anybody, where's the suspense?  If you can come up out of the floor and kill me, but I come back as a cloud of butterflies with razor blades for wings, what's the point?  Take chess.  The rules of the game, and the players forming their strategies within those rules, is where the game lies.  If there are no rules, there's no real game.  And if there's no game, there's no real entertainment.

I don't watch STAR TREK.  I don't imaging I'd have a problem with the concept of the holodeck.  At least, not if I'm gonna buy the rest of it.  In for a penny, in for a pound.

Do I think there would be psychological problems?  I think they would know, going into it, that it wasn't real.  That it was a game.  Imagine the classic game of "murder", where one person is the murderer, and all the others try to figure out who it is?  Well, they would "kill" their victim, and even though it may seem realistic, they know it isn't real.  It's a game.

This is of course, the political hot potato that the entertainment industry has found itself embroiled in for the past fifty years, if not much, much longer.

Of course, if the experience is indistinguishable from real while being played, the potential for misuse is incredibly high.  Then there could very well be long-term psychological damage.  But in these cases there would always be a core reality to return to.  Unless you wanted to take it to Philip K. Dick-ian levels.  (Which you should.  I find it entertaining.)

Cronenberg's played with this in his EXISTENZ, and on earlier hardware, VIDEODROME.  Worth checking out.

[J.R.]

I tried VR machines a few times in arcades and they blew. You saw everything through a tiny screen past the black foam of the incredibly uncomfortable headset. It didn't even give you a sense of movement. Remember in the Lawnmower Man, where Pierce Brosnan is flying in a VR simulation and you see him moving around and going, "Whoaaaa!!!"? Nothing like that.

[Pancho]

I was contemplating the holodeck and similar systems causing people to opt out of their reality for a personal eutopia when i realized something.  If this technology really existed the crew would have a lot less male members as the vast majority of males would, when they reached about age 16, "opt out" into a world of virtual porn.  Even if this wasn't permanent it would set the learning curve back a few years at least.

[john]

>The holodeck is an incredibly stupid thing. Making light images solid would take
>a few atom bombs' worth of power.

 I thought they said that the holodeck used force fields to make objects seem solid.

>Remember when virtual reality was the next big thing? It just kind of went away,
>didn't it? I like to think it's because people realized how dumb it was to think an
>illusion - that you are aware of - would ever have any power.

 I thought it went away because it was too expensive. A local mall had a Virtuality franchise and they charged $3 for a 3 minute stand-up game and $2 for a 3 minute sit-down game.

 Personally, I'd love to have a VR helmet that I could hook up to my computer. Yes, I know it wouldn't be anything like in the movies, but think about it; if you like playing first person shooter games in 3D, wouldn't they be more convincing if you were viewing it through a helmet that blocked out the real world and only let you see the game?

>I tried VR machines a few times in arcades and they blew.

 The few times I played them, I liked them, although I didn't like the lag time between turning your head and the graphics catching up.

[Dan_I'm_The_Man]

From Scott Adams\' The Dilbert Future on \"Why The Future Will Not Be Like Star Trek\"

There are so many Star Trek(tm) spin-offs that it is easy to fool yourself into thinking that the Star Trek vision is an accurate vision of the future. Sadly, Star Trek does not take into account the stupidity, selfishness, and horniness of the average human being. Allow me to describe some of the more obvious errors in the Star Trek vision.

Holodeck

For those of you who only watched the \'old\' Star Trek, the holodeck can create simulated worlds that look and feel just like the real thing. The characters on Star Trek use the holodeck for recreation during breaks from work. This is somewhat unrealistic. If I had a holodeck, I\'d close the door and never come out until I died of exhaustion. It would be hard to convince me I should be anywhere but in the holodeck, getting my oil massage from Cindy Crawford and her simulated twin sister.

Holodecks would be very addicting. If there weren\'t enough holodecks to go around, I\'d get the names of all the people who had reservations ahead of me and beam them into concrete walls. I\'d feel tense about it, but that\'s exactly why I\'d need a massage.

I\'m afraid the holodeck will be society\'s last invention.