Bad Movie Logo
"A website to the detriment of good film"
Custom Search
HOMEB-MOVIE REVIEWSREADER REVIEWSFORUMINTERVIEWSUPDATESABOUT
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 02:20:54 AM
713385 Posts in 53058 Topics by 7725 Members
Latest Member: wibwao
Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  An ugly story « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: An ugly story  (Read 5989 times)
Andrew
Administrator
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 0
Posts: 8457


I know where my towel is.


WWW
« on: July 22, 2002, 11:35:33 AM »

Everyone might notice that the links to the B-Masters group and to Stomp Tokyo disappeared.  To prevent any muddying of the waters, I have an explanation of the events behind this.

A warning, it is a very personal story and I understand if other people do not care or draw different conclusions.  It just means a lot to me.

http://www.badmovies.org/faq/edenlost.html

Logged

Andrew Borntreger
Badmovies.org
John
Guest
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2002, 12:11:18 PM »

Assuming that's an accurate account of what happened, I agree with you.

Personally, I think you should have registered the other Stomptokyo domains as soon as you saw they were open, if for nothing other than the satisfaction of showing him how it feels to have someone you know go behind your back. Of course, that' just me...
Logged
mr. henry
Bad Movie Lover
***

Karma: 1
Posts: 519


« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2002, 12:31:45 PM »

that's lame. a total D(omain)-block move.

especially since your website posted links  to their sites anyway.  in any case, it sounds like a frustrating and disheartening situation and that's too bad.

at the least, it should be settled with an arm-wrestling match.


-mr. henry
Logged

"to be is to do" - Socrates
"to do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra
- kurt vonnegut

systemcr4sh
Bad Movie Lover
***

Karma: 1
Posts: 271


« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2002, 12:55:30 PM »

After reading Andrews side I'd have to say I agree with him. He's making a good point to say that thier actions are what caused his anger and them as people. I would be mad if someone was going around registering domains 'close' to the name of my own site. They probably were trying to get people who mistype the sire (maybe going to .net instead of .org) and and having that redirect to thier own site for hits. That could've been what they were thinking about doing. I support Andrew on this one.

Logged


-Dan

"Evil will always triumph, because good, is dumb"
-Spaceballs

"Now life's like a b-movie, That no one wants to see,
Here comes the zombie, Portraying me."
     - Dillinger Four
Abby
Dedicated Viewer
**

Karma: 0
Posts: 76


« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2002, 12:59:35 PM »

I think registering bm.net was in extreme poor taste, and I've thought as much since I first found the domain (BoF board). That was before I knew how ugly it all really was. This sort of behavior diminishes the sense of web community which I find so appealing. Being a webmaster just makes these domain games seem all the more distasteful. It's a respect-smashing scenario.

You know what's really sad? This "domain-ation" ... it's not like any B-personality is MAKING SIGNIFICANT MONEY by being underhanded here.  What's the gain? I mean, besides ego? I just don't see any benefits -- not even strategic. Except in Andrew's case, who has an established thing going. And I'm glad Andrew didn't register the other Stomp Tokyo names. Because really, he's too good to "go there."

Anyhow, Andrew could run a site with a horrible domain like "zztferiztyyulpdqospwquis.com" and it would still be the beez kneez. And that's why he rocks. Too bad not everyone does. Sorry man.
Logged
Pete B6K
Guest
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2002, 01:40:24 PM »

Sorry, I've already registered "zztferiztyyulpdqospwquis.com". Too late.
Logged
Callysto
Dedicated Viewer
**

Karma: 0
Posts: 76


« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2002, 01:45:04 PM »

I applaude you in your actions Andrew. I also agree with what was said in an earlier remark I too am also glad that you did not register on Stomp Tokyo, because you are far more superior and intelligent to play mindless domain name games. Maybe he should have thought twice about who he was messing with. Stay cool and keep up this magnificent site. We love you Andrew!!!!

Logged

""I always try to save the best for last, but in my opinion you need to jump NOW!!!!""
Captain Haddock
Guest
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2002, 02:19:17 PM »

While I am in no way saying that Andrew does not make a point with his decision and opinion, I do have to wonder about a few things:

(1) Did Andrew ever consider that he might be, in effect, slapping the domain holder of badmovies.COM in the face when he registered badmovies.ORG after badmovies.COM was registered. Maybe the original owner of badmovies.COM was considering making his own bad movies site, but then when Andrew came along he felt he could not do it.

(2) If Andrew was checking badmovies.COM on a regular basis to see if anything was being done there, why did he not check out the other possibilities (badmovies.NET, badmovies.BIZ, etc.) during this time. For that matter, why did it take Andrew so long to try and register badmovies.NET etc.

(3) If Andrew agreed to try to discuss the matter with Stomp Tokyo in a civilized manner, why did he eventually end up using the ultimate four-letter word in his correspondence.

Though robbery is robbery, I do find it hard to completely sympathize with a guy who did not lock his doors and regularly check on his property.
Logged
Captain Haddock
Guest
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2002, 02:45:15 PM »

(4) Did Andrew ever consider maybe, just maybe, the broken link to his site at badmovies.net (which has been fixed) may have been an honest typo. I know I make unintentional typos like that even when I am typing something I feel greatly about.
Logged
Abby
Dedicated Viewer
**

Karma: 0
Posts: 76


« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2002, 03:20:01 PM »

I don't think this is a case of robbery. It's a case of being sneaky.

1.) Badmovies.com has been tied up for years. It was snagged when dot-com speculation was at an all-time high. Other badmovies domains can't hurt an entity with no plans to use the domain other than to sell it. In other words, your point is moot. If anything, Andrew's work added value to the domain's worth.

2.) I remember Andrew first mentioned registering ".net" here on the message board last year. In fact, there's no way to check, but my elephant memory seems to recall the subject came up last February (2001). Whenever ".org" was threatened. At any rate, had Andrew followed through with his plan he would have seen that the domain was taken.

3.) You can only be civilized for so long. I think Andrew showed remarkable restraint. More than I would have.

4.) I myself wouldn't feel insulted about the link being broken at badmovies.net. The smug write-up is insult enough.

Andrew made one mistake in all of this: he wasn't greedy.

And you know, I bet if my landlord (whom Andrew doesn't know) had registred badmovies.net to sell his collection of Patty Duke movies, I doubt Andrew would have minded. Because my landlord isn't aware of Andrew's work. There's no rapport between them. It's nothing personal.

If I had registered the domain, knowing Andrew and his work, then kept it quiet while maintaining the illusion of a friendship, THEN launched a site once I was found out, I'd be a go-to-the-head-of-the-class a***ole.

I'm sorry if I'm unusually passionate about this. In my eyes, Andrew's work set the standard for cult movie sites. At that, he set a warm, friendly standard. My respect for his work, his approach, and his accomplishments is through the roof. Like I said, a red flag went up immediately upon seeing the .net domain go live. Moreover, this sort of mindless, misdirected greed is why so many dot coms are in the s**tter. I watched it first-hand. I hate this stuff. It's especially baffling when there's no profit motive.

I love the internet cult movie scene. Until now, it's been relatively free of the petty ego-fueled political behavior that made the cult movie zine scene seem so lame. This sort of behavior breaks the community spirit that makes webwork so attractive.
Logged
AndyC
Guest
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2002, 04:37:26 PM »

I think Abby has said everything that needs to be said.

I also agree that when I first heard of the badmovies.net site, my first impression was that it was some copycat trying to ride on Andrew's coattails.

Andrew runs probably the best B-movie site I know of. Great message board and a sizeable selection of funny and reviews in a style that's easy to read. It's the only one I check every day.

I also enjoyed checking out StompTokyo from time to time, but I don't think I will do that from now on. Unless Chris Holland can say something pretty convinving in his own defence, I'd say he sounds like a first-class scumbag.
Logged
Will
Guest
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2002, 04:40:17 PM »

Well, at least the Badmovies.org link at Stomp Tokyo works as of 5 minutes ago.

It's a sad story when something like this causes a break in the b-movie community. Andrew sounds pretty reasonable, though I don't want to make too harsh a judgment without both sides of the story represented. Then again, I've been on here since '97 and Andrew's always been a straight shooter.

It's just a shame.
Logged
Abby
Dedicated Viewer
**

Karma: 0
Posts: 76


« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2002, 05:17:12 PM »

Speaking of shame, guess what .net/.org domains are available for purchase? Talk about not locking doors ... I spy with my little eye quite a few available domains. Too many to play such a dangerous "domain-ation" game. Odder still considering how much effort/money was directed toward obtaining badmovies domains.

Frankly, I don't see how presenting another "side" will alter my perceptions. The honorable gut instinct here should have been to offer a transfer of the domain(s) to Andrew once he expressed his displeasure. That would have been the friendly, community-minded thing to do. That didn't happen, as evidenced by the operational badmovies.net website.
Logged
Andrew
Administrator
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 0
Posts: 8457


I know where my towel is.


WWW
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2002, 05:37:28 PM »

I will address Capt Haddock's questions in order, though Patty (Abby) has already spoken my mind.  I think that her and I might have been separated at birth.

> (1) Did Andrew ever consider that he might be, in effect,
> slapping the domain holder of badmovies.COM in the face when
> he registered badmovies.ORG after badmovies.COM was
> registered. Maybe the original owner of badmovies.COM was
> considering making his own bad movies site, but then when
> Andrew came along he felt he could not do it.

I am not certain that Badmovies.com was registered when I started Badmovies.org.  After checking, to the best of my knowledge, it was registered after Badmovies.org by something like the "TM Acquisition Corp" (some other cybersquatters) but subsequently changed hands.   I know that I looked into obtaining the domain before my first B-Fest.   If anyone knows where an archive of registrars can be found, providing a history of a website's registration, I would love to see it.  Unfortunately, my emails from when the site first started are lost.  However, it looks like I have everything from July 1998 on.

> (2) If Andrew was checking badmovies.COM on a regular basis
> to see if anything was being done there, why did he not check
> out the other possibilities (badmovies.NET, badmovies.BIZ,
> etc.) during this time. For that matter, why did it take
> Andrew so long to try and register badmovies.NET etc.

I did not know that I had to check on those other domains.  I have been concerned about the change of management for .org domains.  Worst case scenario is that I could lose Badmovies.org, but that is very, very unlikely.  Regardless, I finally decided to register Badmovies.net so that I had a rescue azimuth.

> (3) If Andrew agreed to try to discuss the matter with Stomp
> Tokyo in a civilized manner, why did he eventually end up
> using the ultimate four-letter word in his correspondence.
which ties in to
> (4) Did Andrew ever consider maybe, just maybe, the broken
> link to his site at badmovies.net (which has been fixed) may
> have been an honest typo. I know I make unintentional typos
> like that even when I am typing something I feel greatly about.

Civilized based on the status at the time of he and I speaking.  That Badmovies.org was the only broken link I could find after dedicated looking tells me something.  Indeed, the .ogr was the only typographical error I could find at all.  That is awfully darn suspicious, is it not?  Plus, notice that, for once, they did not use "Badmovies.org," instead choosing "The Bad Movie Review Website."  That is the only time, to my knowledge, that they have ever used "The Bad Movie Review Website."  The broken link was definitely a deliberate insult, because the person in question is a worm.

> Though robbery is robbery, I do find it hard to completely
> sympathize with a guy who did not lock his doors and
> regularly check on his property.


This is a poor analogy.  How about this:  I purchase a parcel of land well outside of town.  Every week, for about two years, Chris Holland and myself can be found among a group of friends at the pub.  On rare occasions, Chris and I have supper together.  One day I want to buy the plot of land to the south of mine.  I go to town hall and find out that Chris bought all three other plots of land that were open, in the time since we knew each other.  He never told me.

No, this is a matter of broken trust.  I knew Chris Holland personally, had dinner with him and his family, and never dealt with him in anything less than a professional and honorable manner.  That he did this, over a period of months, was hard to believe.

Logged

Andrew Borntreger
Badmovies.org
Andrew
Administrator
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 0
Posts: 8457


I know where my towel is.


WWW
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2002, 05:50:02 PM »

Abby wrote:

> Frankly, I don't see how presenting another "side" will alter
> my perceptions. The honorable gut instinct here should have
> been to offer a transfer of the domain(s) to Andrew once he
> expressed his displeasure. That would have been the friendly,
> community-minded thing to do. That didn't happen, as
> evidenced by the operational badmovies.net website.

Honestly, during our phone conversation, Mr. Holland asked me what I wanted to do.  I said that it would take me some time to calm down and that our relations would be frosty until enough time passed.

What broke my back was his quickly putting up a domain at Badmovies.net and then deliberately insulting me with a broken link and salt-in-wound description.  No way was I going to let that pass, I had not even begun to calm down as it was.

Chris Holland's best bet in this matter was that I would stay quiet.  Since that has failed, his best bet is pleading innocence in intent and that I am out of control paranoid.  He is intelligent, but I am not an entirely brain dead Marine.

Logged

Andrew Borntreger
Badmovies.org
Pages: [1] 2
Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  An ugly story « previous next »
    Jump to:  


    RSS Feed Subscribe Subscribe by RSS
    Email Subscribe Subscribe by Email


    Popular Articles
    How To Find A Bad Movie

    The Champions of Justice

    Plan 9 from Outer Space

    Manos, The Hands of Fate

    Podcast: Todd the Convenience Store Clerk

    Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!

    Dragonball: The Magic Begins

    Cool As Ice

    The Educational Archives: Driver's Ed

    Godzilla vs. Monster Zero

    Do you have a zombie plan?

    FROM THE BADMOVIES.ORG ARCHIVES
    ImageThe Giant Claw - Slime drop

    Earth is visited by a GIANT ANTIMATTER SPACE BUZZARD! Gawk at the amazingly bad bird puppet, or chuckle over the silly dialog. This is one of the greatest b-movies ever made.

    Lesson Learned:
    • Osmosis: os·mo·sis (oz-mo'sis, os-) n., 1. When a bird eats something.

    Subscribe to Badmovies.org and get updates by email:

    HOME B-Movie Reviews Reader Reviews Forum Interviews TV Shows Advertising Information Sideshows Links Contact

    Badmovies.org is owned and operated by Andrew Borntreger. All original content is © 1998 - 2014 by its respective author(s). Image, video, and audio files are used in accordance with the Fair Use Law, and are property of the film copyright holders. You may freely link to any page (.html or .php) on this website, but reproduction in any other form must be authorized by the copyright holder.