Think before you speak...

[Squishy]

I love setting Dano off. He flails about so entertainingly!

"As for the Jews controlling Hollywood, I think Farrakhan and Jesse and Sharpton would be interested to know that you classify them as "conservatives." They're really the only people I can think of...who have made statements to that effect."

Yes, too bad Hollywood cannot make them "servile toadies," huh? No, I classify them as bigoted idiots. To repeat for the sake of the mentally challenged: conservatives don't say openly-bigoted crap like that anymore--well, most don't--"liberals (control the media)" is safer. (And just to be clear, I don't think all conservatives are bigots. That's the type of broad generalization Dano makes while crying about broad generalizations he claims I make about him.) But it was a very popular phrase not so long ago. (And the basis for that line in the "Simpsons" when Burns sees the germs on Smither's face screaming "Freemasons run the country!!" In fact, Cartman on "South Park" still uses it on occasion.)

"And of course small groups of loud idiots claiming to represent entire races, genders, or sexual orientations should absolutely be allowed to bully artists, scholars, and journalists into correctness."

You mean the Christian Coalition?
Or do you mean the Moral Majority?
Oh, wait, you mean "Liberals" and their "Politically-Correct Nonsense," don't you?  Of course--when THEY do it, it's BAAAAAAAAAAD; when the Right does it, I'm sure you're equally offended...right? I got confused because you left the word "all" out of the tired old conservative cliche quoted above ("represent ALL races..."). The Klan claims to represent an entire race, and they're loud idiots and bullies; maybe that's what you meant? (Yeah. Sure.)

Flangepart, I'm not reading anymore of your posts until you start spelling better. We all know you can do it; we've seen it.

[Dano]

You mean the Christian Coalition?
Or do you mean the Moral Majority?
Oh, wait, you mean "Liberals" and their "Politically-Correct Nonsense," don't you? Of course--when THEY do it, it's BAAAAAAAAAAD; when the Right does it, I'm sure you're equally offended...right?
*****  And I love it when Squishy scrambles around to make people who disagree with him into something easier to attack.  If he'd stop long enough to read what I write, he might actually realize that I don't even consider myself much of a conservative.  Of course the Christian Coalition and Moral Majority and lots of other conservatives use scare tactics and labelling to stifle debate and it's just as bad (not worse, but just as bad) when they do it  -- go back and carefully re-read my take on Heston, silly goose.  

If you weren't so touchy about the fact that people don't just take what you say for granted, and most people (dare I say almost all?) on this messageboard have very different views from you, maybe you wouldn't feel such a need to lash out at the one person in this thread who actually agreed with some of the things you had to say.  Bitter little man.

A few people scoff at Weaver's complaining (15 years after the fact, and after her massive profit, by the way) about guns in the movie Aliens, and observe that without guns it wouldn't have been much of a movie, and suddenly we're the radical right picking on the poor liberals?  Sounds like someone's got a little persecution complex.  Election results got ya down?

: )

[peter johnson]

I once knew a guy in grad school like Squishy.  It didn't really matter to him what the issue was, he'd simply keep throwing words at a topic until everyone around him was worn out & exhausted.  He would then believe he had "won", and "winning" was the most important thing to this fellow -- not conversation, not an honest exchange of intellectual opinion and ideas:  Just having the last word, hopefully at the expense of others.
Soon, everyone in the Anthro department stopped talking to him.  I don't know whatever became of him.  I don't care.  Neither did anyone else . . .
peter johnson

[Flangepart]

Sorry, Uncle Squishy, but i tend to worry about What i'm saying, and once thats done, go over the spelling. You should have seen it before i posted!
....But....if it has to be perfectly typed before you even try to read it....is that fair to me?

[Squishy]

The White Males Fight Back:

Bart: "I think sharing is overrated too. And helping others. And what's all this crap I've been hearing about tolerance?"
Homer: "Hmm! Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."

------------------------

Dano: "And I love it when Squishy scrambles around to make people who disagree with him into something easier to attack."

Really--kind of like how you keep lying about what I've written: for example, "Squishy keeps saying 'Republicans equals racist!'"--and other times you've "rearranged" what I've written to make things easier for you? (I suppose that's why my being able to back up my arguments with references makes you so angry.) Lies make the Baby Jesus cry! Why do you make the Baby Jesus cry, Dano?

...say, that reminds me: taken that "test" yet, Dano? Surely you are secure in the rightness of your convictions, yes? (Notice that the four public figures in your prior post--Farrakhan, Jackson, Goldberg, and  Sharpton--all have one thing, and one thing only, in common. It says a lot, whether you're aware of it or not.)

Flangepart: "But....if it has to be perfectly typed before you even try to read it....is that fair to me?"

Perfectly typed? No. Everyone makes typos. But when a post is littered with "agine" and "strait" and several other misspellings of very simple words, it becomes not  worth the effort to translate. Who's that being fair to? You normally write a LOT more clearly than that...and you aren't exactly bothering to read my posts thouroughly, either.

Li'l Pee Jay: you've already made a complete fool of yourself in your "Por Le Squish" thread, back when you were simultaneously insulting me, talking down to me, and kissing my ass--unsuccessfully; I'm honestly surprised you ever showed your face here again after THAT hilariously childish spectacle.

This isn't about "winning"--it's about challenging ignorance. I used to be a Fudd once, myself. ("Be vewy vewy caweful--I'm an angwy white male! Heh heh heh heh heh!") But people challenged the beliefs my redneck family had instilled in me, and consequently I quit being an ignorant redneck. And I'm grateful to those who argued with me, Dano and PeeJay, rather than trying to lick my anus in the hopes I would join their pack, adding to the safety they felt in numbers.

Guys, if you want a board where patently false right-wing fantasies such as "The Liberal Media Conspiracy," The War Against "Politically-Correct Nonsense," Racial Slurs Don't Harm Anyone and The White Male As The Ultimate Victim go completely unchallenged, I suggest you look elsewhere. Otherwise, be better prepared to defend your positions. (Note to Dano: racial slurs are very common at the Mr. Cranky boards. No political correctness there!)

-------------------------------------

Talk about escalating irony! It's all about the timing:

Right after my last post here, I left for work and picked up a paper and there it was: the hideous offspring of "Reverend" Fred Phelps (Farrakhan, Jackson and Sharpton are not the only ones to make an embarassment of that title) in California to protest a school play about the murder of Matthew Shepard. Along with their usual vicious, stupid vomit ("God hates f**s, God sent AIDS"), they were singing "God Hates America" and holding signs that read "God Sent The Sniper," and "Thank God For 9-11."

Phelps had been invited by a local Baptist minister, who felt that the play's message--that it's wrong to murder homosexuals for being different--was "politically-correct nonsense." Phelps, however, was busy protesting a book-signing by Al Gore, so he sent his children and grandchildren to spew in his place.

One of his children told a counter-protester, "I don't think of you as a f**, but rather a f**-enabler."

BUT AT LEAST THEY WEREN'T BEING "POLITICALLY CORRECT."

Meanwhile, the War on Terror has taken a back seat to The REAL Threat Against America: homosexuals. After telling us 9-11 occured, in part, because we didn't have enough translators to decipher messages triggering the plot, the US military dismissed several translators this week...for being gay.

BUT AT LEAST THEY WEREN'T BEING "POLITICALLY CORRECT."

"Mallard Fillmore" author/artist (and closet bigot) Bruce Tinsley drew a Sunday strip a few weeks back castigating airport screeners for searching everyone instead of concentrating exclusively on Arabs and Arab-Americans. He presented a list of "suspects," including the only obvious choice, Osama Bin Laden--but since the 9-11 hijackers looked little or nothing like Bin Laden, the only thing they had in common is their ethnicity--and not every terrorist shares THAT. Still, a more recent strip expressed Tinsley's displeasure that experts, before their capture, thought the Washington Snipers MIGHT have been "a white male." Another example of the Fudd's belief that he and he alone is The World's Victim...yet how many "white" churches in America have been burned because of Timmy McVeigh? How many Fudds have been stopped by police?

 BUT AT LEAST HE WASN'T BEING "POLITICALLY CORRECT."

[Squishy]

Aw, I wrote all that, and I completely forgot: the last time I heard anyone talking about how "Jews control the media" was when evangelist Billy Graham and President Richard Nixon discussed it--and how to "deal" with it--when another wonderful chapter of those Nixon tapes were released to the public. (Chimpy has since put an end to the public release of those tapes. Welcome to the New America, where the Freedom of Information Act suddenly means nothing.) Hope this refreshes your selective memory, Dano.

BUT AT LEAST THEY WEREN'T BEING "POLITICALLY CORRECT."

[Dano]

Aw, I wrote all that, and I completely forgot: the last time I heard anyone talking about how "Jews control the media" was when evangelist Billy Graham and President Richard Nixon discussed it--and how to "deal" with it--when another wonderful chapter of those Nixon tapes were released to the public. (Chimpy has since put an end to the public release of those tapes. Welcome to the New America, where the Freedom of Information Act suddenly means nothing.) Hope this refreshes your selective memory, Dano.
*****  It would have if I had ever heard that quote (one can only selectively forget something that one has actually heard - my best memory from the Nixon administration was turning three by the way - oh what a party!).  I have no problem believing that Graham and Nixon had such a discussion however.  Question:  How is it that Iraqis gassing Curds isn't "recent" enough to matter in our discussions, but the Nixon administration is?  Not saying you don't raise a good point here - I think you do - thanks for the info.

[Dano]

...say, that reminds me: taken that "test" yet, Dano? Surely you are secure in the rightness of your convictions, yes? (Notice that the four public figures in your prior post--Farrakhan, Jackson, Goldberg, and Sharpton--all have one thing, and one thing only, in common. It says a lot, whether you're aware of it or not.)
*****  If you say so, Freud.  If you didn't want me to name Jesse, Al, and Louis, then you shouldn't have brought up the "Jews in the Media Conspiracy."  I'm secure enough in my tolerance to ignore the baiting.  Since I stated up front that it's wrong and foolish to use hurtful words in hurtful situations, I'm starting to get embarassed for you with all your sn****ring about your "test."  Let it go.

And I'm grateful to those who argued with me, Dano and PeeJay, rather than trying to lick my anus in the hopes I would join their pack, adding to the safety they felt in numbers.
*****  For the record, disagreeing with you does not constitute trying to get you to join anything.  Sounds like you went in one direction and don't want to hear anything that's contrary to your new world view.  Bottom line: how does laughing at Sigourney's hypocritical and rather pointless bemoaning of the use of guns in Aliens translate into "left wing media conspiracy" and "all the angry white men must be put in their place."  I guessed it looked like a job for the messageboard's moral nanny.

Phelps had been invited by a local Baptist minister, who felt that the play's message--that it's wrong to murder homosexuals for being different--was "politically-correct nonsense."
*****  Hmm...  So if an extremist uses a phrase in one case, that phrase is totally discredited?  I direct you to your astute answer on the agreement you and Jimmy Swaggert had on Frank Zappa.  Just because an imbecile takes an argument and applies it where it does not belong, doesn't discredit the argument.  You should KNOW this - you yourself saw what was wrong with Jesse Jackson's screed against the movie Barbershop.  Does what he said in that case totally discredit your positions??  Arguing from anecdote rarely proves a point.  This case is no different.

Meanwhile, the War on Terror has taken a back seat to The REAL Threat Against America: homosexuals. After telling us 9-11 occured, in part, because we didn't have enough translators to decipher messages triggering the plot, the US military dismissed several translators this week...for being gay.
*****  Uh huh.  Please locate the post where I said anything intolerant about gay people and refresh my selective memory again.  What's your point?  That there are religious a***oles and right-wing a***oles out there??  Point conceded.  Point never even opposed, Squishy.  Jeez.  Talk about jousting with windmills.

"Mallard Fillmore" author/artist (and closet bigot) Bruce Tinsley
*****  What author/artist who??  What are you even talking about???  Good Lord you sound like Old Man Smithers at the end of a Scooby Doo - ranting and raving
about things nobody's even mentioned.  "Everyone would think like me, if it weren't for those SNOOPING author/artists!!"

[Squishy]

Dano: "Since I stated up front that it's wrong and foolish to use hurtful words in hurtful situations, I'm starting to get embarassed for you with all your sn****ring about your "test." Let it go."

Yes, you "concede" things like that ("hurtful words in hurtful situations are wrong"), then in your next post repeat them ("people who don't like those words are PC whiners"). Don't be embarassed for me, Dano. I'm very comfortable and confident of my viewpoint here, and not afraid or embarassed to discuss it in open public conversation. You? You won't take the test.

Dano: "Bottom line: how does laughing at Sigourney's hypocritical and rather pointless bemoaning of the use of guns in Aliens translate into "left wing media conspiracy" and "all the angry white men must be put in their place." I guessed it looked like a job for the messageboard's moral nanny."

Dano, you're the one who keeps injecting yourself into discussions at any opportunity to tell anyone and everyone Lefties Are Dumb and Wrong--so who's being the "moral nanny" here? And as we've previously discussed, what you describe as Weaver's "hypocritical and rather pointless bemoaning of the use of guns in Aliens" is THIS, as described by Chadzilla:

Chadzilla: "I just found the placement of her comment ("I think there are better ways to handle a situation") within the context of the documentary humorous as that her statement was presented in such a way (not intended, granted) that made it seem as if she were addressing the situation in the movie. The production clip where Weaver goes from being in character to herself is priceless (she's standing there, pulse rifle and flamethrower in hand, looking ready to kick ass and take names when the director yells CUT, she then quickly lifts her hands and flaps them in a 'Yuck, take it away." and crew members remove the weapon from her shoulders)."

So, we have (1) a comment taken out of context by the documentary's editor and (2) a gesture that can be interpreted in any number of ways (the pulse rifle/flamethrower rig doesn't look easy or comfortable to wear), and Royal Dano has decided this is "hypocritical and rather pointless bemoaning of the use of guns"--ignoring a statement she makes about "Alien 3" that suggests her viewpoint is quite the opposite...even after I pointed it out. You don't even comprehend the subject you're arguing about; do I need to point out that's freaking hilarious?  :D  I repeat: don't be embarassed for me...

Dano: "I direct you to your astute answer on the agreement you and Jimmy Swaggert had on Frank Zappa."

Sauce for the goose, baby. You're not the only person here who gets mad and wet because I don't think the way you'd like; that was, in part, intended for Li'l PeeJay, and in part for you, to suggest there are things far worse than what you consider "PC whining." Ditto the rest of the post about Bruce Tinsley (a favorite subject between me and Flangepart) and the translators. It's just about bigotry--unless you can reasonably explain how closeted homosexuality among low-level personnel threatens our translation resources in the War on Terror--but, given the opening, I'm sure you'd dismiss all protest against these things as "nonsense."

And you misunderstand: I find the buttkissing ("But...I agreed with you on this, this, and that!") offensive, not the arguing--because it suggests I am expected to reciprocate the act. Sorry--I just don't swing that way.

Side rant: In an earlier post, Dano suggested I might be bitter about the election results. Sorry, I actually got what I wanted. Although I prefer a conservative local government and a liberal federal one, with a nice mix on the state level, my local government turned out conservative enough, and I'm glad the GOP took Congress.

For the next two years, they have no excuses.

The spin is already being spun; Republican propagandists--who once claimed deficit spending in the '80s was the work of "tax-and-spend" Democrats and the budget surplus of the '90s was the work of "responsible" Republicans, as if both parties were not actively involved in either--are now claiming the opposite: that it was Reagan's wild deficit spending alone that caused the Soviet Union to wither and die. (For them, this also covers the question of HOW Jellybean The Sleepy Cowboy singlehandedly brought down the Reds, even if that isn't remotely true, nor well-explained.) They're also claiming massive-deficit spending is the best thing for the economy at this time--but you can be sure they wouldn't be saying this with Democrats in charge.

All they have besides the spin is The Holy Perpetu-War Against The Invisible Enemy. The "War Is Peace/Lies Are Truth/Ignorance Is Knowledge" War.

The next two years are going to be interesting indeed. I'm betting my savings will see me through, and hoping my loved ones and I don't wind up dead as a consequence of the bottomless thirst for Idiot Foreign Policy that seems to almost be based on Ann Coulter's vicious idiocy ("Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity!").

Lacking anyone else to criticize, the public and press will be focused on the GOP, and the GOP, lacking anyone else to blame for each misstep, will be focused on each other. The feeding frenzy is going to be bloody.

By the time the next elections come up--if elections haven't been done away with by our benevolent, wise leaders--we'll see what happens. Ciao!

[Chadzilla]

Stop the madness before it consumes you all!!!

All I wanted to do was just use/borrow/steal/paraphrase a gag I saw on an episode of Red Dward once....really, that was the only thing on my mind.  "Leaflet campaign."  It was funny then, it's funny now, but...heck with it...

Of course, stepping between two arguing individuals just runs the risk of making me the target...

...uh...hi...guys...how ya doin'?

[Dano]

Fine - enough sniping.

But I'd like to take a minute to address the one point from Squishy's earlier post that stuck in my mind.  He says he was brought up in racism and was saved by people who challenged those beliefs.  Good.  He couldn't help to whom he was born and I applaud him for having the strength to change.  I also found what he said about his dad to be genuinely sad and I felt sorry for him.  Honestly, no scoffing.

Now here's why we don't see eye to eye.  I wasn't brought up in racism, and I was brought up in an area with a very large minority population.  I've been friends with non-white kids since I could walk.  Coming from those two backgrounds, we inevitably have a different take on things.  Growing up with people of different races I learned not to take such things so seriously.  Pretty much every black joke I heard growing up was told to me by black kids.  I reciprocated with Irish and Catholic jokes.  Race never seemed like a big deal, and I'm thankful for that.  By the time I met a real racist, I was happily immune.

Growing up in this environment also taught me about the triviality of words compared to real racism.  There was a white lady on our school board who constantly crowed about my school's "wonderous diversity" and arranged NAACP speakers to come in and talk to the student body.  Never once did this woman utter a racist word.  But then her daughter started seeing a black kid, and then it was a whole different story.  She cracked down on that relationship as if her daughter's boyfriend had the plague.  So much for niceties meaning everything.

Now I understand that a reformed racist cannot take such things lightly because of the painful memories they must bring up, but maybe Squishy could at least understand that not everyone comes from a deadly serious racist background like he does.  Some reformed racists can be awfully self-righteous and holier-than-thou.  It's like talking to a Born Again Christian.  Thanks anyway, sir, but I got it right the first time.

Here's a test for Squishy:  Make friends with some black people.  Don't bore them with your politics - talk to them about work, sports, girls, boys, whatever.  Hang out with them for a while.  Maybe if they start to feel loose enough around you, you will hear one of them use the word n****r.  When this happens, get on your high horse and scold them about using that kind of language.  See if they still want to be your friend.

If you pass that one, you might try going to a Garth Brooks concert, or a rodeo, or a high school football game in Texas.  Shout as loud as you can: "REDNECK!!!"  Funny thing the way you define what a "slur" is.  I know plenty of people who take offense from "redneck" on either a racial or cultural level, and yet you have no problem throwing that one around.  Curious.

[Squishy]

I got no beef with you whatsoever, Chadzilla--our discussions are always civil and reasonable, even when we disagree or a rare misunderstanding occurs. You spell well, too.

...Forgot one last anecdote, one even more germane to the issue than the others. I know Dano loves anecdotes, so here it is, and I'll try to keep it short.

An article was recently published in my local paper about "white privlege." BEFORE YOU GO FLYING OFF THE HANDLE, I should like to point out that it was NOT a blanket condemnation of Anglo-Saxons or their culture, NOR a conspiracy theory about racists, NOR anything of the sort; it just described things that white people MIGHT take for granted that "minorities" MIGHT (and sometimes do) see as putting them at a disadvantage--so that we might understand each other's point of view a little better. That's all.

The response was amazing--but predictable. The article was characterized by a number of enraged Fudds as a "hypocritical assault" on white people, who had their own anecdotes about being "talked back" to by Blacks, or being afraid to go out at night because of same. One wrote demanding a study of "black privlege" and "female privlege" (wow). Another described white people as "the only remaining group that it's still legal to arrest unlawfully, beat up, and murder" (WOW!!).

This is what I'm talking about when I rail on about Fudds. Fudds see themselves as the sole victim of the world, and any "political correctness"--that disagrees with their own--as the worst possible crime.

[Squishy]

Test already passed, Dano. Several "minority" friends, both at work and outside work; watch bad movies with them often. We've also argued long and hard about the "N-word," and we're still friends. (They also argue the issue with family members, go figure.) The guys I'm no longer friends with are the white guys with the foul mouths and bizarre victimhoods...

Example: one turned to me out of clear blue sky one day and said, "Don't you feel threatened by the fact that THEY are allowed to celebrate Kwanzaa, and everyone else celebrates Christmas?" (My God, there's so much wrong with that, where to begin? "THEY?" "Threatened?" "Allowed?" "Christmas?" I repeat: out of a clear blue sky.)  

"She cracked down on that relationship as if her daughter's boyfriend had the plague. So much for niceties meaning everything."

Hey, good to see you're not above using anecdotes after all, Dano. You wouldn't be the first to realize there are hypocrites all around us. Jeff Foxworthy has already beaten me to the punch on "redneck;" so has "King of the Hill." If you think for one second it has the same sort of impact as an African-American hearing it from a white person, you take yet another step down the ladder in my eyes. Not too many rungs left, either.

[Squishy]

Correction:

If you think for one second it has the same sort of impact as an African-American hearing THE N-WORD from a white person, you take yet another step down the ladder in my eyes.

My point being, of course, that Fudds have a relatively safe history when it comes to racial victimization in America.

[Chadzilla]

Squishy wrote:
>
>Example: one turned to me out of clear blue sky one day and
> said, "Don't you feel threatened by the fact that THEY are
> allowed to celebrate Kwanzaa, and everyone else celebrates
> Christmas?" (My God, there's so much wrong with that, where
> to begin? "THEY?" "Threatened?" "Allowed?" "Christmas?" I
> repeat: out of a clear blue sky.)
>

Yeah, and what about HANUKKAH or RAMADAN!?!  Uh, I for one am VERY threatened!!!  SATANIST!!!

I celebrate Christmas because I'm Christian, others celebrate different because of other cultural or religious beliefs.  Got no problem with that.  Only time it bugged me was when this Jewish kid in school got and EXTRA week off because of Hanukkah.  I begged my parents to convert so I could get three weeks off too.

> You wouldn't be the first to realize there are
> hypocrites all around us.

I watch a lot Conservative Christian programming for entertainment.  It was pretty funny watching Robertson, Hagee, and a few others denounce Halloween while showing all the spooky trimmings of the 'holiday'.  But one thing really whacked me...Hagee is a very vocal critic of the 'satanically' inspired Harry Potter, but in a recent infomercial interview he calmly explained how he studied the writings of not only John Grisham (his favorite writer) but of STEPHEN KING to learn how to craft characters.  If you can't see the irony of that, then you are blind.

And yes, I'm going to read his novels...some day.  :-)