PETA supports terrorism!

[JohnL]

>And unfortunately you won't be able to punch me in the lung with a rifle butt,
>because we have these lovely gun-control laws, one thing our country got right.

Some areas of the US have drastically restricted gun ownership, like Washington D.C. Care to guess where that state ranks as far as acts of violent crime are concerned?

It's not the legal gun owners who are most likely to commit most crimes, it's the violent criminals who have no regard for the law and therefore aren't bothered by gun laws. Muggers don't want to get shot anymore than anyone else does and if they have reason to think that a person is armed, they'll look for an easier target.

>But, if this is the way how America has to act in order to push the "were better
>than you" ideal, it just makes us look stupid.

Take another look at the tapes of Sept. 11th and tell me that there aren't some cases where saying America is better than them is justified.

[Chris K.]

JohnL wrote:
>
> >But, if this is the way how America has to act in order to
> push the "were better
> >than you" ideal, it just makes us look stupid.
>
> Take another look at the tapes of Sept. 11th and tell me that
> there aren't some cases where saying America is better than
> them is justified.

JohnL, did you read the rest of my little statement first. I said: "As an American, I am just proud of my country. I never go around bitiching about how 'My country is better than this one or that one?' because it just doesn't seem the correct way to be patriotic. If I did that, I would be more of a rude, bully jerkoff American rather than a respectful individual who is proud to be an American. But, if this is the way how America has to act in order to push the 'were better than you' ideal, it just makes us look stupid."

Let me just point out that I feel that pulling the "better than them" theme is not very patriotic. Again, the love of your country and who/what you stand for is what patriotism is. It's not about whose better than who. I'm sorry, but that's how I see it. Is this a country built on freedom, or was it built on competition?

Of course, after the attacks on September 11th the "America is better than the ones who have retaliated on us" is justified I agree. But we have been using that "better than them" song-and-dance WAY BEFORE the 9/11 attacks, and I might add other countries have done that as well so we are not very alone on that subject. So I guess what I was trying to point out earlier wasn't written out too clearly and was maybe a little bit off. If so, sorry about the mis-translation I made earlier.

In any case, let's put the whole thing to rest now. I have to agree with what the others say: this is a forum for B-movie discussion, not politics and I should have stayed out of it in the firstplace. But as I say, you learn from your mistakes. I just wanted to give my say and then politely exit.

[ABPOS]

As George Carlin once said, "Chickens are good people."  they dont start wars, kill for fun, polute the earth, sell and take drugs, beat their wifes, and every terrible thing that man does

[Dano]

That said, conservative sod that I am, it sickens me that after some company like Nike takes thousands of American jobs and exports them so they can pay poor people in poor countries $4/day...they turn around and hike up the price of the shoes to $200/pair because they pay a basketball player $10 MILLION a year to endorse them.
*****  Right, then they market them to the demographic groups in this country LEAST able to afford $200 for a pair of lousy sneakers.  I wouldn't be caught dead wearing their shoes.  Shame on MJ, Tiger, and anyone else who peddles that garbage.  I guess pro sports just don't pay the bills these days.

[Flangepart]

ChrisK. Agree with you on Patriotisim. I'm glad i live here, and while i like Canada and the U.K., this is my home. And its not perfect. Its better then many, but not perfect. I hope i never become an "Ugly American". Regular ugly is quite enough!

Great Carlin gag, Joe Bob. But...if chickens were people,....they would not be people.,or chicken...Chipol? Pickens? Was Slim a half chicken/half human?  It might explain his voice!  If chickens were people , they would be intelligent....well, more so...and then where would they be?
They would certianly complain to the managment! They would understand what was happening then!
"Chicken run" would be a reality. "Animal Farm" more then a metaphore! "Motel Hell" would be the most popular film in Intelligent animal history!
And so, we return to the subject of B-movies!
Bout frickin time!

[Squishy]

Crime statistics go up and down in every country, whether that country has gun control or not. When they go down, gun-control advocates quote them, and when they go up, the other side does. I would, however, point out that the UK and Japan have fewer funerals for police officers killed in the line of duty per capita than the US. Fewer mass funerals for schoolchildren, too. (Must be because of the astonishing similarities of their cultures...)

(Vaguely-related side note: I love it when someone "discovers" something about other countries. If I had a dime for every time some pinhead comes up to me with a look of excited glee on his face and blurts out something like "You like Japan so much! Well I just found out they have BULLIES in their schools!! And child molesters! And CRIME!! And PORN!! And some of them have guns too! So, uh...there!!," I'd have a buttload of dimes. It's when they poop out the more unbelievable horsehockey that I actually get offended: now I'm hearing from gun-heads that Japan actually has LOTS of crime and gun-related deaths but it's just never reported because of the government-Yakuza connection/conspiracy. "You didn't know THAT, did you?!? You can't disprove it either!" Uh, yeah. Now sit still while I list all of my favorite conspiracy theories that may not make sense but still can't be disproven...)    

You can kill someone with a knife, yes. Under very specialized circumstances, a small group  can kill thousands armed only with boxcutters. But beyond such circumstances, you can't, say, slaughter twenty-five kids at a school with a rock or a knife, unless they stand very still and you have a lot of time to work. With the right gun, you can kill several people and terrorize entire neighborhoods from the comfort of your car, whether you're the Washington snipers or some bored punk in Oakland.

It's incredible how many people think a bang-bang is their one and only form of defense. It must be the whole impressive-noise / penis-substitute / justice-requires-an-exit-wound machismo thing. Maybe it's just that guns are so simple, any fool can use them. Fortunately, science continutes to develop more and more effective non-lethal alternatives, and one day, there will simply be too many to ignore or dismiss.

As for PETA; I disagree with personal battery of the fur-is-murder-red-paint sort, and the group is run by severe nutjobs (if you don't know how severe, trust me, you don't want to), but most of these people just don't want animals to suffer needlessly. You don't have to be a vegan to understand or sympathize with the horrible conditions under which most livestock and far too many pets live. Perhaps if a greater number of "reasonable" people got involved, the nutjobs wouldn't have so much influence--but it's easier to ignore those conditions and complain about the nutjobs. "Cruel" humor is "in." Everyone likes to complain!

Many of the horrible conditions animals suffer are a consequence of a desire for maximized profit through "efficiency"--and eventually, the techniques involved are applied to humans as well. Hence, sweatshops. Companies don't dole out crap wages in third-world countries out of loving benevolence--they're just looking for cheap labor. They'd take slaves if they could--and many sweatshops cross that line. Some businesses are also looking for other "relaxed" laws, such as those regulating pollution and public safety. That's one of the great things about America: the Big Bad Federal Government is always on our backs--and theirs. The system isn't perfect, but it's better than some.

One last side note: someone's bound to want to retort with "If you wanna pay more for everything, fine!!"  The cost of product is determined more by what the market will bear, than what it cost to produce. That's why corporate execs can make such increasingly outrageous inflated salaries year after year: they convince enough softheaded boobs to pay more than they should for almost everything. Now go out and buy a SUV you don't need!! It's big, dumb, and obxonious--I mean, "powerful!" It's, uh,  "good" for the country!! :)

[Chris K.]

Squishy wrote:
>
> (Vaguely-related side note: I love it when someone
> "discovers" something about other countries. If I had a dime
> for every time some pinhead comes up to me with a look of
> excited glee on his face and blurts out something like "You
> like Japan so much! Well I just found out they have BULLIES
> in their schools!! And child molesters! And CRIME!! And
> PORN!! And some of them have guns too! So, uh...there!!," I'd
> have a buttload of dimes. It's when they poop out the more
> unbelievable horsehockey that I actually get offended: now
> I'm hearing from gun-heads that Japan actually has LOTS of
> crime and gun-related deaths but it's just never reported
> because of the government-Yakuza connection/conspiracy. "You
> didn't know THAT, did you?!? You can't disprove it either!"
> Uh, yeah. Now sit still while I list all of my favorite
> conspiracy theories that may not make sense but still can't
> be disproven...)

I too have ran into folks who make those type of discoveries and love to blab them to me. I have a certain love for the European horror flicks and I always said they can make better horror/thriller. One day, some film buff tells me that "Did you know that Europe has also made some porno flicks? Damn Euro-trash bastards." It's funny he mentions this, especially since the United States of America has also made some porno flicks back in the 70's (and are still being made to this very day) and acts like Europe was the only one. Again, something is just wrong with some of the people in this country! But, every country has inteligent and ignorant people so it's really nothing new to me.

[JohnL]

>It's incredible how many people think a bang-bang is their one and only form of
>defense. It must be the whole impressive-noise / penis-substitute / justice
>requires-an-exit-wound machismo thing. Maybe it's just that guns are so simple,
>any fool can use them. Fortunately, science continutes to develop more and
>more effective non-lethal alternatives, and one day, there will simply be too
>many to ignore or dismiss.

 Yes, there are some alternatives, but none is as universal as a gun. Let's look at some;

Karate/self defense - Takes time to become good, isn't always effective unless you're an expert and can be dangerous to try against someone with a gun or knife, again unless you're an expert.

Mace - Illegal in a lot of places, not affective against people who are drunk and/or high.

Pepper Spray - Not always effective, needs to be aimed right in a person's eyes.

Electric stun gun - Illegal in a lot of places, not effective through many layers of clothing, requires you to get very close to the other person.

 Not to mention that none of the above get the immediate respect that a gun will. Often, gun owners avert a violent crime simply by displaying their gun and a willingness to use it to defend themselves. In each issue of the magazine National Rifleman (my father subscribes) is a page of news items pulled from news sources around the country detailing how legal gun owners have used helped to stop crimes, either to themselves or to others. Many of them read like "John Doe was stopped at a light when an unidentified man brandished a knife and demanded that he turn over the keys. The man fled when Mr. Doe drew his handgun and pointed it at the suspect."

[Dano]

Often, gun owners avert a violent crime simply by displaying their gun and a willingness to use it to defend themselves.
*****  Most criminals are like any other predator - they go for the weakest possible prey and give up quickly if any resistance is offered.  It simply isn't worth the risk or time to press an attack once it is resisted.  There are plenty of ways to discourage a criminal without a gun - most involve injecting some common sense into your routine.  All that said, I am a 6'2" 200 pound man who lives in a low crime area, so I'll buy the gun-for-self-defense argument to an extent.  Especially since I've seen so many movies where a licensed gun in the hands of a competent and careful user was all that kept the zombies back.

: )

[frannie]

dam.  it seems like everything has gone on some political tangent recently.  i was just trying to point out these people tend to have fairly illogical arguments and make crazy points.

[Funk, E.]

Flame war? What Flame War? I honestly have nothing against anyone and I don't remember insulting anyone or even insinuating that they were unintelligent or even question their legitimate birth.

I made a few points. I used one (1) personal example as a "shoe on the other foot" type of example, but I NEVER FLAMED anyone. There was no "Jane you ignorant slut" type comments in any of my posts. I'm personally abhorrent of flaming. What did I say that was derogatory or diminutive?

Ash if I flamed someone call me on it and I'll appolgize, but please, re-read my posts. Where's the fire?

[wheresthecarrot]

So does the other side....people will say anything to get their point across...a trapper once came to our school and showed us a picture of an obviously dead fox in a trap...he tried to tell us that traping doesnt hurt animals, as is displayed by the "sleeping" fox...I guess he didnt think we'd know the difference between dead and sleeping...

The only reason chickens peck each other to death is when they are placed in extremely stressful circumstances...like the extremely overcrowded conditions they are raised in...free range chickens do not have this problem of pecking because they have room to things like breathe.

And as far as the terrorism goes....why don't we just stop buying oil for cars as well?  Oil purchases for synthetic leather make up an extremely small part of the money we spend on oil every year.

[Chadzilla]

wheresthecarrot wrote:
>
> And as far as the terrorism goes....why don't we just stop
> buying oil for cars as well?  Oil purchases for synthetic
> leather make up an extremely small part of the money we spend
> on oil every year.
>
>

Why?

Sing it with me, 1, 2, 3, 4....

Moneymoneymoneymoney....MONEY!!!

And we're talking billions of it.

As far chickens go, only turkeys in captivity drown themselvs in rainstorms.  Creepy.

[frannie]

wheresthecarrot wrote:
>
>> The only reason chickens peck each other to death is when
> they are placed in extremely stressful circumstances

no they will do it as part of their normal behavior regardless of their confinement.  same can be seen in various other species as well.  alpha wolves, etc.  

one of my biggest gripes with animal groups is when they start talking about how farm animals should be free to roam as nature intended.  then they describe animals that have been domesticated for thousands of years and don't exist in nature.  anyone ever seen a herd of wild cattle (and i'm not talking buffalo) or chickens?

[wheresthecarrot]

I'm sorry, I've lived on and worked at farms all of my life.  Chickens do peck each other, to keep each othe in line, but pecking each other to death only happens if quarters are too cramped...it's a defense mechanism.

And since when does an animal not being naturally occurring species make it and o.k. thing to treat them like crap?