What is "real" Sci-Fi and would people know it if they saw it today?

[Trollificus]

I always thought Bradbury was trying to be a prose poet. He had some good ideas...for a while. Especially for uncritical teenage readers.

As for dividing Sci-Fi and SF, or Specualtive Fiction and Science Fiction, or whatever...I'm aware that such labels are artificial constructs, and as such, inadequately represent reality. Always, some members of a class fit neatly into such a construct and seem to validate its usefulness, but usually there are many more examples that are problematic.

So I'm aware of the futility of such labeling...but I do it anyway. *sigh*

(Did I not get enough bulls**t sessions in school to sate my appetite for trite characterizations? Does dropping out in ones' second year leave one with a lifelong need for 'sophomoric'? Apparently so...)

[Judaspriest_14]

Heres what i think Are Some real good scifi movies .

A clockwork Orange

Cube

Star wars exept for  ep2

twilight Zone movie

[raj]

Trollificus wrote:
 
> Ah, but that, then, is postulating that such activity is a
> universal trait among sentient beings. Even the 'moral'
> Membari had a bit of connivance in them. (I'm thinking of the
> one story line that dealt with the politics of the Membari
> culture)

No, what I'm saying is that JMS (I ain't gonna try and spell his name) took what is essentially a human drama and gussied it up in a science fiction milieu.  Not that i'm complaining, I love the show.  Most sci-fi does that.

Our interaction with real, sentient aliens will be vastly different.  It'll be very complicated, and not really something that'll fit well in a two hour movie.  There are very few books that actually have first contact as the main theme, and don't have the aliens be humanoids.  The only one I can think of off the top of my head is "The Mote in God's Eye".  I can't really recommend the book.  Aside from the idea of the aliens being sentient hive type creatures (like bees & ants) and the difficulty of just communicating with them, the novel just didn't do it for me.
 
> Our appreciation of 'storytelling' is defined by certain
> elements and you aren't going to get too 'alien' and still
> have a good story. You certainly couldn't do a five year
> series on races that 'all got along just famously' could you?

Correct.  The heart of drama is conflict.

[JohnL]

>There are very few books that actually have first contact as the main theme, and
>don't have the aliens be humanoids. The only one I can think of off the top of my
>head is "The Mote in God's Eye".

Nor Crystal Tears by Alan Dean Foster is the story of the first meeting of humans and a race of intelligent insects. The twist is that it's told from the insects' point of view. It's supposed to be a prequel to some of his other books, but that's the only one in the series that I've read.

[Andrew]

> >There are very few books that actually have first contact as
> the main theme, and don't have the aliens be humanoids. The only one I can think
> of off the top of my head is "The Mote in God's Eye".
>
> Nor Crystal Tears by Alan Dean Foster is the story of the first meeting of humans >and a race of intelligent insects. The twist is that it's told from the insects' point of >view.  It's supposed to be a prequel to some of his other books, but
> that's the only one in the series that I've read.

Turtledove's "Worldwar" series.  Of course, they are still bipeds...

I am trying to remember if "A Mission of Gravity" and a number of other books were first contact, or humanity having already met other races.  That is what disqualifies "A Deepness in the Sky" along with "Ringworld."

Would "Rendezvous With Rama" count?  I can see someone saying that is more of a first contact with alien technology book.

[raj]

Cool.  Looks like I've got a couple of books to get.  I don't mind bipedalism, but when the aliens look just like us (with some differences in head shape) it just kills the whole "these are not humans" feel.  There are so many different shaped creatures on earth, surely the lifeforms on other planets are much more different still.

[Fearless Freep]

"The Gods Themselves" by Asmiov was a good story about human contact with a completely different life form

Another good one is "Dragon's Egg", about life on a nuetron Star

[JohnL]

>Cool. Looks like I've got a couple of books to get. I don't mind bipedalism, but
>when the aliens look just like us (with some differences in head shape) it just kills
>the whole "these are not humans" feel. There are so many different shaped
>creatures on earth, surely the lifeforms on other planets are much more different
>still.

You might also want to check out The Visitors by Clifford Simak. The aliens in this book are giant, floating, black rectangular blocks. I don't recall too much interaction with them though, mostly they just arrive and the people of Earth try to figure out what they want.

[lonecorndog]

Got to throw in both the book & movie 2001 for first contact classics.

[Todd R.]

For first contact with a bovine species, check out Asimov's short story "Hostess."

[Funk, E.]

Err... Bladerunner? Solent Green? Omega Man? Quite Earth? Do these count as "Hard" SF?

[nshumate]

Funk, E. wrote:
>
> Err... Bladerunner? Solent Green? Omega Man? Quite Earth? Do
> these count as "Hard" SF?

Blade Runner comes closes out of those.

Soylent Green: No because the ending (you know, that big surprise revelation) makes no sense.  No moneygrubbing corporation would try to make a go of a foodsource that made such little economic sense.

Omega Man:  You explain to me how hair that's already grown out can change color one way or the other.  Or how contracting a virus makes you a spooky religious fanatic, instantly devoted to Anthony Zerbe.

The Quiet Earth:  They've got plenty of technobabble, but it makes very little sense -- and the whole premise of surviving because you were at the moment of death takes it right into the mystical realm.

[Funk, E.]

But I thought is was more the exploration of the premise that was important. I must have missed the part about "technologically probable." 2001 isn't exactly realistic technologically speaking. Neither is The Cube. I mean we can get away from the "action film in the future/space/whatever" thing, but both Scientifically viable AND intellectually consistent is a bit of a tall order.

Vanilla Sky?

Silent Running?

Ghost In the Shell?

Wolf Brigade?

Give me your examples

[nshumate]

Funk, E. wrote:
>
> But I thought is was more the exploration of the premise that
> was important. I must have missed the part about
> "technologically probable."  2001 isn't exactly realistic
> technologically speaking. Neither is The Cube. I mean we can
> get away from the "action film in the future/space/whatever"
> thing, but both Scientifically viable AND intellectually
> consistent is a bit of a tall order.

In movies, yes, because movies are concerned with spectacle, and telling a story in a relatively short timeframe; there isn't the space to develop a premise fully.

It's still a tall order for novels, but it's demonstrably more doable.


> Vanilla Sky?
>
> Silent Running?
>
> Ghost In the Shell?
>
> Wolf Brigade?
>
> Give me your examples

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single movie that unassailably plays by the rules of "hard" SF; the nearest I can get is just slightly-ahead-of-the-curve technothrillers like The Hunt For Red October.  Even 2001, while easier to defend as a novel, gets a lot more mystical on film; Kubrick playted to the strengths of the medium and thus emphasized image over idea.

Just about every SF movie draws more from the trappings and traditions of Sci-Fi more than the serious literature of SF and its extrapolative basis.  Such is the nature of the beast.

Nathan