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Author Topic: Off topic discussion, but interesting nonetheless  (Read 5635 times)
Chris K.
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« on: March 12, 2003, 11:43:01 PM »

Okay, this is an off-topic post but let me say even though this is a discussion on a subject of "the upcoming war", this is not a post discussing the rights and wrongs of the war. Rather, it's a different discussion involving it.

So with France, Germany, and Russia not backing us up on this upcoming war, I really don't feel very bitter towards them. It's their decision, what can you do? I could care less, and so could they. Well, it seems that in Capitol Hill some American folks are so p**sed that they decide to rename French Fries and French Toast in their local cafateria. The new names: "Freedom Fries" and "Freedom Toast." And boy, it's not stopping there as now French Kiss is renamed "Freedom Kiss" and French Wine is now called "Freedom Wine". And as these name changes are going on I just have to say, "Do these people have anything else to do with their lives?" I don't want to sound harsh here, but are these name changes really nessasary? Do we benfit from it? Does it make us look like the bigger man than France? My answer: no. And I am pretty sure somebody here on this forum will disagree, but I have no problem with it (hey, it's your opinion and you can stick too it). But it just amazes me as to how these people, who obviously seem to have too much free time on their hands, are now making name changes on products that have "French" attached to them as if it's such a great importance. Is this really that important? Again, I say no. And yet, I don't see any Russian or German names being Americanized. Someone at my college told me, "Why aren't we converting Brautworst to 'Freedom-worst'? Why aren't we changing Russian Roulette to 'Freedom Roulette'?" And I too began to ponder that question as well, but I just can't think of the answer.

To me, these people remind me of the online petition that tried to have THE TWO TOWERS title changed due to their "belief" that it was a direct refference to September 11th. These people want to be taken seriously and are pretty much striving for the attention of the media and press. And in this case, both are getting it. And while the petition of THE TWO TOWERS failed, I have a feeling this fad of changing "French" products to "Freedom" will not last too long. Yes, it could be called an act of patriotisim. But then, the people behind THE TWO TOWERS petition also claimed their reasons were an act of patriotisim as well, so it's still questionable. But this name-change thing is just too ridiculous. And besides, aren't their better things to have on our minds and more important items to attend to than, "Say, let's change the French-name products to..."

Now before you add in your comments, let me just say that I do feel I'm in the minority when I say all of this. I am a proud patriot of this country and one who feels that we should waste no time and just go to war already (I'm not being a "warmonger", I just feel we need to get this taken care of as soon as possible). So please, no "Your an anti-American" comments and insults. Hell, I know some who feel this French name-change is pretty stupid, and these people are NOT anti-war or anti-American or liberals. So let's keep this discussion nice and easy; and avoid any, to use the word, "flame wars".

But as I say all of this, I do feel that we should not turn this into a "political" thing. I would just like to hear your imput on this and what you think about it. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Or are you indifferent?

And when all is said and done, we can get back to the B-movie madness.
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Deej
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2003, 01:53:28 AM »

Chris, you nailed it buddy! It's reminiscent of how sauerkraut was renamed "liberty cabbage" and people were urged to get rid of dachshunds during WWII. It all pretty friggin overblown, and probably close to being downright stupid.

As you said everyone has an opinion about the possibility of an upcoming war, some for it, some against it. What scares the hell out of me is the recent trend in calling any descenting opinion "un-American". Against the war? You're called un-American on Fox news, WTF? You know, I could care less how a celebrity feels about important issues of the day, but to boycott their shows because they voice their opinions? Seems kinda like blacklisting. Might as well form another HUAC, and start naming names.

I hate saying this because I sound like I'm in the ACLU, but what's up with the mob mentality? Even the(tee hee hee) impartial media is chiming in and calling people un-American, saying that expressing anti-war sentiment is aiding the enemy, and generally demonizing anyone with an opposing view.

I love this country, I honestly consider my self honored to have served in our military, and it kinda rubs me wrong when I see people do things like turn their backs on the flag, but they have that right, freedom of speech, good people died for it. And, I think, it's no less wrong to threaten, demonize, or degrade people who are lawfully expressing there beliefs. Anyway, that's my view, sorry for the sermon.

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Deej
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2003, 01:58:47 AM »

Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention...I still dislike the French, but that's not a recent thing and is totally unrelated to the current UN situaiton.cheers!

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Everyone has potentially fatal flaws, but yours involve a love of soldiers' wives, an insatiable thirst for whiskey, and the seven weak points in your left ventricle.

DJ
Flangepart
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2003, 01:05:08 PM »

To me, they are just "Fries". Its like a northener refuseing to use the phrase "Southern fried chicken". Big deal.
Not all French hate us. Its mostly those not from the Normandy area, and the young, who have no direct experiance of the WW2. Not that i can't laugh at all the French jokes!
I think the anger generated by the least popular anti-war types, is the perception of the arrogance they project. Its attitude, man. Disagreeing is one thing, but being disagreeable is another.
Thats why i'm staying out of this as much as i can.
I just hope we win....well, as well as we can win, concitering the rats nest involved.

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Mofo Rising
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2003, 03:38:26 PM »

"Three wars back we called sauerkraut Liberty Cabbage, and we called Liberty Cabbage Super Slaw."
-Abe Simpson

I think it's perfectly reasonable.  It's just that we haven't gone far enough.  

First, all words that begin with "ch" but sound like "sh" are French based.  We must either pronounce prounounce the "ch" as in "chair" or switch the beginnings of each word to "fr" (for "freedom").

Second, Statue of Liberty.  Constant reminder of the French.  Tear it down.  That or increase it's bust size and plate her hair with gold.

Third, give the original thirteen colonies back to England.  We don't need your help to imperialize the country, you damn Frenchies.

And those are just the first three steps in my double-plus good plan to excise franc-based cultural traits from our soil.  Anybody who wants to hear the rest of my manifesto, I will be reciting it before a bunch of monkeys I have dressed up as various members of the U.N. in the parking lot at the local Arby's Friday afternoon.

Also, this was the March 12 entry in my George Carlin one-a-day calender:
"I don't care if there's a nuclear war as long as I can get some french fries."
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Squishy
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2003, 04:05:26 PM »

Heh heh, good one, Mofo. However, based on what I've seen in other threads, I think irony is dead around here...(but I'll give it shot anyway)

How very quickly we forgot the troops France assisted us with in Afghanistan. Or for that matter, the American Revolution. But facts like that don't stop slobbering chickenhawk jingoists like Bruce Tinsley, George Will, Dittoasses, the Weiner Nation, and other loud, brash cowards from practicing their mindless propaganda.

France won't back up our incredibly stupid plan? Treacherous bastards! Don't they realize they owe us? (sarcasm) We stood by and watched--even helped--the Nazi war machine roll over them (fact), and then single-handedly saved them without any help whatsoever! (malarky) Are we not Gods? Do we not deserve to rule the Earth unquestioned? (sarcasm again) Their arrogance knows no bounds! (irony)

------------------------------

"George Will saw fit to include in his latest Newsweek column this joke: "How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris? No one knows, it's never been tried." That was certainly amusing. One million, four hundred thousand French soldiers were killed during World War I. As a result, there weren't many Frenchmen left to fight in World War II. Nevertheless, 100,000 French soldiers lost their lives trying to stop Hitler.

"On behalf of every one of those 100,000 men, I would like to thank Mr. Will for his clever joke. They were out-manned, out-gunned, out-generaled and, above all, out-tanked. They got slaughtered, but they stood and they fought. Ha-ha, how funny. In the few places where they had tanks, they held splendidly.

"...We Americans are famously ahistorical. We can barely be bothered to remember what happened last week, or last month, much less last year. The French are really stuck on history. ...Does it not occur to anyone that these are  very old friends of ours, trying to tell us what they think they know about being hated by weak enemies in the Third World?"

--Molly Ivins, 2-18-03 -- excerpted from Working For Change
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Squishy
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2003, 04:39:20 PM »

Oh, for God's sake:

"Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite, R-Brooksville, plans to introduce a bill today proposing that the families of the thousands of soldiers, sailors and airmen buried in France and Belgium be allowed to dig up their remains and have them shipped home."

"Mack McConn, 78, of Orlando, who survived the D-Day landings at Normandy, during which more than 10,000 Americans were killed, was outraged at the suggestion of moving the bodies.

'That is ridiculous,' the Navy veteran said. 'I can tell you right now that I don't approve of it at all. We've had problems with the French before, but it's like a spat; you get over it. It would be ridiculous to open those graves.'"

 * Ginny Brown-Waite:
    Phone: 202-225-1002
    Fax: 202-226-6559
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Deej
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2003, 04:50:57 PM »

Keeeeerist! Everyday life is starting to seem like a bad movie. This is all too similar to Canadian Bacon!! And the creepy bit is that people are buying into this crap. What can you do? I'm just gonna finish my breakfast of Freedom Toast, go pick my girlfriend up from the hair place(salon is out), where she is getting Freedom braids, give her a big Freedom kiss, maybe get an ice cream on the way home, I'm feeling like some Freedom Vanilla, then titilate,or possibly scare, her with the special Freedom tickler, I had imported all the way from Freedom. And afterwards, just hope for the best. Senator McCarthy on line 1.

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Everyone has potentially fatal flaws, but yours involve a love of soldiers' wives, an insatiable thirst for whiskey, and the seven weak points in your left ventricle.

DJ
Chris K.
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2003, 05:01:23 PM »

Deej wrote:
>
> I'm just gonna finish my breakfast of Freedom Toast,
> go pick my girlfriend up from the hair place(salon is out),
> where she is getting Freedom braids, give her a big Freedom
> kiss, maybe get an ice cream on the way home, I'm feeling
> like some Freedom Vanilla, then titilate,or possibly scare,
> her with the special Freedom tickler, I had imported all the
> way from Freedom. And afterwards, just hope for the best.
> Senator McCarthy on line 1.

I, on the other hand, am going to finnish my "French Toast" and order up some "French Fries", then gonna' go out and buy some "French Wine" and yes, get some "French Vanilla" ice cream. And if anybody has a problem with the use of "French" in these terms, well then screw them!

I agree with you Deej: Everyday life is starting to seem like a bad movie. The only question that remains: Can this bad movie-life be stopped?
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raj
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2003, 05:10:49 PM »

My great uncle is one of those WWI soldiers buried there, and I'm perfectly content to leave him there.  I'm all for getting rid of Saddam, the sooner the better, and I believe that Chirac's intransigence is due his fear that the extent of French dealings with Iraq, will be uncovered.  However, this renaming of things is petty & childish, not to mention out and out stupid.  I don't mind French & German antiwar protesters, that's one reason we fought WWII.  They may be naive or stupid (IMO), but that's democracy.  

Shoot, if you could only do/say the correct thing (never mind how to figure out what that is) then where would Ed Wood be?  (as he tries to make the off-topic thread on-topic)
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Chadzilla
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2003, 06:08:10 PM »

?

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Chadzilla
Gosh, remember when the Internet was supposed to be a wonderful magical place where intelligent, articulate people shared information? Neighborhood went to hell real fast... - Anarquistador
Chadzilla
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2003, 06:18:42 PM »

And I am not giving up watching Jean Rollin movies just because of a lousy disagreement over which road to take.

Of course, the French have been down the Imperialist road and know a thing or two about terrorist attacks.  They've been down this road before us and are only pointing out pot holes we sadly think that our Hummers and SUVs can handle.  So has Russia - remember the stupid Rambo III back drop?  The Russian war in Afghanistan?  That was their Vietnam.  We should pause, study their mistakes, and act accordingly.  Won't happen though, what with us being invincibabble and all that

One more thing, can Ann Coulter please start wearing bikinis on Hannity and Colmes?  :-D

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Chadzilla
Gosh, remember when the Internet was supposed to be a wonderful magical place where intelligent, articulate people shared information? Neighborhood went to hell real fast... - Anarquistador
Pete B6K
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2003, 06:35:23 PM »

I really should try and stay out of anything remotely political on this board (personal points of view conflict quite strongly with many here, and I know there's relatively large proportion of military types on the board) but a few thoughts came up reading all this like I'd like to air.

First thing I'd like to clear up is the fact that anti-war or anti-bush are often misinterpreted as anti-American.  I am in no way at all anti-American, but like I've said in previous discussions I disagree with a lot of stuff your government does.  But then I'm anti-Blair too, and disagree with a lot of stuff our UK government does, but that dosen't make me anti-Britain.

Which brings me ontro the subject of patriotism.  Another subject I'll try not to get too deep into.  Basically, on the whole I don't feel patriotism is a positive thing.  One way of looking at patriotism is 'the belief that your country is greater than all others because it just so happens you were born there'.  And patriotism can often (I don't mean to generalise) be a slippery slope to feelings of nationalism, imperialism, and in the extreme, racism.  Patriotism can often be a harmless pride of your country, a happiness with the way your country is, but I don't feel we've got too much to be proud of in recent years.

Another thing patriotism does is fool us into thinking that the life of a person from our country is more valuable than that of a person from another country.  I say this with all respect, and I understand that 9-11 was a disgusting atrocity, any loss of life is a terrible tragedy, but the fact that an estimated 8000 Iraqis died from sanction-imposed famines and diseases that could have been treated by medicines not allowed into the country by sanctions on that same day is ignored. (and no I can't prove that figure, I accept that it may be flawed and biased but i feel the point I use it to make still stands).  I'm putting on my flame proof jacket as we speak.

I feel the whole renaming food thing is not only stupid but a form of 'socially acceptable' racism. And racism's something I've never accepted in any form. To propogate widescale negative feelings towards a whole nation of people because of their political stance is terrible. Then there's the fact that it's stupid, purile, immature, idiotic, pointless and all the other things mentioned by others too. Especially seen as 100% (or maybe only almost 100%) of your 'French' fries are US-produced.

And lastly if there is a boycott/renaming of things from anti-war countries, I feel the UK should be included in that along with France, Russia and Germany.  Tony Blair in no way represents public opinion in this country.  He hardly even has majority support within his own party, people who work for him are threatening to quit if he goes ahead as he is now.

And I tried not to get all too much into anti-war arguments, but I've limited myself to just one short one:

Dead people can't celebrate their freedom.

Pete
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Gerry
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2003, 07:46:24 PM »

Chadzilla wrote:
>
> Of course, the French have been down the Imperialist road and
> know a thing or two about terrorist attacks.

They sure as hell have.  Most of us are probably too young to remember the French-Algerian war but that was one of the ugliest conflicts in world history.

France has a huge minority population from Islamic countries including Morroco, Algeria, Turkey, and some of the west African nations like Senegal.  It is easy to understand why they would hestitate going into a Muslim country when the issues aren't entirely black and white.

[For the record I support the war.]
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Chris K.
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2003, 10:05:16 PM »

Chadzilla wrote:
>
> One more thing, can Ann Coulter please start wearing bikinis
> on Hannity and Colmes?

Speaking of Shean Hannity, do you ever listen to his radio program? If so, what do you think of it?
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