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Author Topic: Movies were people miss the point  (Read 14071 times)
wickednick
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2003, 05:04:55 PM »

For the record I do not think Im above everyone I just think that people are not always that observant as I am,and Ive goten complaints before that I talk to much so I thought I would keep it short.
Ok first I'll talk about Signs.Often when I talk to people they think that Signs was just an alien invasion movie.They think that the title Signs was actually about crop circles, nothing could be further from the truth.The movie is about lost faith and a return to faith and the alien invasion is just a catalyst.The title is really in reference to signs given to us by god.You can see these signs through out the movie: the little girl always leaving water around is what finnally kills the alien,the boys asthma is what saves him in the end,the last words from the reverands wife is what gives them the idea to use the bat on the alien, and so on.There are a lot of little things in this movie which are in reality signs from god.The reverands faith is restored after he realises that all these things could not be an accident.
Ok thats the first one see why I didn't give any reasons the first time.
Next is South Park Bigger Longer and Uncut.Now I find the South Park shows to be one of the most inteligent and thought provoking shows on television.There is no other show on tv that talks about the subjects they do.The South Park movie was not just an excuse to make the most vulgar movie ever made, it was largely about the stupidity and hipocrisy of censorship, and how we demonise people just because we are offended by them.
I find many people miss the point of Planet of the Apes.They think that its just a typical Sci-fi movie with a twist.They don't see the social and political satire that goes on in the movie.The movie when you boil it all down is how are religous and social beliefs often blind us to the shear truth of the matter.In the movie the apes are forbbiden to enter the Forbbiden Zone not because it is dangerous but because it could destroy there entire belief structure.Dr.Zaus(i don't know how his name is spelled) is the keeper of the faith, but in reality gards the secret that could tare his society down.
Many people hated the Final Fantasy movie because they didn't understand it.I didn't find it that hard to figure out if you just opened your mind a little.Now keep in mind that this is not are earth and it may work by some rules that are's does not.The movie is about a asteroid that crashes into are planet, but this asteroid comes from anouther planet which was destroyed during a war between the peoples of that world.The tormented spirits of those that died were trapped in the peices of the planet, one of which eventually fell to earth.
When the asteroid crashed into are planet the enraged spirits began attacking the people of earth.The people of earth learned that the spirits operated on a certin energy wave length, and that they could use this energy against them.Thus they were able to build the protective structres and weapons.Now there is a theory that there is a spiritual force within are own planet called Gia.This spiritual force is what keeps are world alive.The asteroid that crashed also has its own Gia, and that the energy from the asteroid is making are planet sick.It is believed that are planet can be saved by collecting certin energys from the remaining life on are world.These energys could then be used to heal are planet and save earth.
There are you people satisfied.

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FearlessFreep
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« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2003, 06:16:21 PM »

Hate to say it but for both Signs and Planet of the Apes, I've heard those points many times before; people haven't missed them at all.  Planet Of The Apes in particular was as subtle as a hammer
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Susan
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« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2003, 08:11:56 PM »

I don't know if it's been mentioned because i'm in a hurry to eat and will re-read this thread later but one that comes to mind is "Natural born Killers" - man nobody who came out of that theater seemed to get the irony of it.

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B-grade
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« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2003, 09:23:37 PM »

>>The movie when you boil it all down is how are religous and social beliefs often >>blind us to the shear truth of the matter.In the movie the apes are forbbiden to >>enter the Forbbiden Zone not because it is dangerous but because it could >>destroy there entire belief structure.Dr.Zaus(i don't know how his name is >>spelled) is the keeper of the faith, but in reality gards the secret that could tare >>his society down.


>Planet Of The Apes in particular was as subtle as
> a hammer


Not to  start a planet of the apes arguement (one of my favorite series of films. THANKS AMC FOR THE 24 HOUR FEST).

BUT.

I may not agree with either of you.  While the first point is part of the message.  The rest of the point is that "the Doctor is right.  Man is bad/evil" The apes should be blind and stay out of the forbidden zone.  Blind social belief may be wrong but are not all bad.

It takes two men and one trip to the forbiden zone to destory the world (Again).

through out the movies they stop listening to the law giver and slowly become us.

All that seems preachy, so I really think the movie is about cool monkeys
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JohnL
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2003, 10:34:45 PM »

>I always thought Contact asked some pretty big questions, and then proceeded
>to never answer them - not really. Of course, for those paying attention, not
>answering the questions was the point - they (the questions) were there to make
>the viewer think, not to provide pat answers.

Sure, it made me think about how stupid the aliens were. They send these plans to Earth and it takes years and billions of dollars to build it. What's the point of doing all this? So the aliens can say "Hi!" and then send her home with absolutely no proof that the whole thing wasn't a hallucination. Considering how much unrest the entire project caused, the cost involved and the fact that there was no proof that anything happened (yes, I remember the part about the camera recording several hours of nothing), why would they bother repeating the experiment rather than just tearing the whole thing down and recycling the parts? Even if they do, with no proof to support the claims of the people who go through it, what's the point? I mean, what good does it do to go visit aliens who appear as people you know, don't tell you anything useful and then send you home with nothing to show for it? The very least they could have done would have been to give her some piece of scientific info that could be verified by the scientific community. You'd think an advanced race would realize that others would think she was crazy when she went home with a story about meeting her dead father, especially as from their point of view, nothing happened.

>Now keep in mind that this is not are earth

You mean "our" Earth?
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nshumate
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« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2003, 11:36:39 PM »

wyckednick wrote:

> Ok first I'll talk about Signs.Often when I talk to people they
> think that Signs was just an alien invasion movie.They think
> that the title Signs was actually about crop circles, nothing
> could be further from the truth.The movie is about lost faith
> and a return to faith and the alien invasion is just a
> catalyst.The title is really in reference to signs given to us
> by god.You can see these signs through out the movie: the
> little girl always leaving water around is what finnally kills
> the alien,the boys asthma is what saves him in the end,the last
> words from the reverands wife is what gives them the idea to
> use the bat on the alien, and so on.There are a lot of little
> things in this movie which are in reality signs from god.The
> reverands faith is restored after he realises that all these
> things could not be an accident.

See, and I think you'd have to be as stupid as a bag of hammers not to have gotten that.  That was one of the parts that stuck in my craw most -- the shallow "faithless preacher who regains his faith thanks to the space aliens" drivel.


As for POTA -- again, how could ANYONE over the age of twelve not get the allegorical nature of it all?  As someone else said, about as subtle as a sledgehammer.  One of my favorite movies, yes, but subtle, no.

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Nathan Shumate
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nshumate
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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2003, 11:39:58 PM »

Really?  People MISS that?  On the Argento cut, maybe.  But you'll be hard pressed to find a review of that movie (aside from something written by a "heh heh"-level gorehound fanboy) that doesn't put the critique of consumer culture front and center.

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Nathan Shumate
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wickednick
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« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2003, 03:42:00 AM »

 I was not talking about everyone missing the point of POTA.Most got it but there are those out there who don't.The point of this topic was about movies that some people did not get the point of. When I mentioned Signs and POTA I did not mean that the majority of the people didn't get it, all I was saying is that there are those who didn't get it.I figured that what I was getting at was pretty obvious I didn't think people would have such a hard time figureing out what the topic was about.

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Grumpy Guy
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« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2003, 05:41:06 AM »

JohnL wrote:

> Sure, it made me think about how stupid the aliens were. They
> send these plans to Earth and it takes years and billions of
> dollars to build it. What's the point of doing all this? So the
> aliens can say "Hi!" and then send her home with absolutely no
> proof that the whole thing wasn't a hallucination. (Etc. Etc.)

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.  You missed it, and the alien that looked like her father all but came out and said it - it's a test.  If mankind isn't willing to take it on faith that this happened, they're not ready to be part of the enlightened community that (apparently) exists.  The little bit of proof given (seven hours of blank space when she seemed to fall right through the contraption) was the cornerstone of the test the Aliens set before mankind.

Of course, this also implies that the aliens are arrogant beyond redemption, but, hey...

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--"I doubt if a single individual could be found from the whole of mankind free from some form of insanity.  The only difference is one of degree."
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Grumpy Guy
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« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2003, 05:43:53 AM »

You know, Nick, every post you've made on this thread, from your opener to your responses to the legitimate gripes of your fellow posters, has just plain dripped with condescention.  You claim not to think you are better than we, but you talk to us like we're thrid graders.

That's a pretty high and mighty stance for someone who can't tell the word "are" from the word "our."

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--"I doubt if a single individual could be found from the whole of mankind free from some form of insanity.  The only difference is one of degree."
--Desiderius Erasmus
nshumate
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2003, 09:46:40 AM »

Let's look at what you originally wrote:

"Ok everyone has seen these movies were they pose some phlisophical question.But often I find people miss the point of these movies and think that they mean something completely diffrent than what they were intended, or they just don't understand them at all."

Seems to me that you were bemoaning the fact that "often" (which would mean a significant portion of the time) people just don't get it.  And then you give a list of movies that are pretty darned easy to get.  We're not exactly talking about Fellini here.  We're not even talking about the Freudian subtext of the original Star Wars trilogy.  It was pretty danged obvious that this is what these movies were ABOUT.  (Heck, the allegorical nature of the POTA movies was a part of the studio ad campaign!)

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Nathan Shumate
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« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2003, 09:49:49 AM »

No, he didn't miss it. The movie's all over about faith and signs and stuff.  It's ALSO about some damnably stupid aliens.

Here's a hint:  In the plot is stupid, no one will benefit from the subplot.  If the text is faulty, no one will appreciate the subtext.  They can "get" it -- but they won't admire it.

Like I said, for me, the whole "preacherman gets his faith back thanks to the aliens" thing was just as much an insult to my intelligence as the "aliens made of sugar coming to The Watery Planet" revelation.  The movie wanted people to think it was smart, without the effort of actually BEING smart.

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Nathan Shumate
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2003, 10:25:00 AM »

nshumate wrote:
> No, he didn't miss it. The movie's all over about faith and
> signs and stuff.  It's ALSO about some damnably stupid aliens.

Umm...  We were actually talking about Contact, not Signs...

> Here's a hint:  In the plot is stupid, no one will benefit from
> the subplot.  If the text is faulty, no one will appreciate the
> subtext.  They can "get" it -- but they won't admire it.

> Like I said, for me, the whole "preacherman gets his faith back
> thanks to the aliens" thing was just as much an insult to my
> intelligence as the "aliens made of sugar coming to The Watery
> Planet" revelation.  The movie wanted people to think it was
> smart, without the effort of actually BEING smart.
>


But those Aliens in Signs, now that you mention it, were pretty dumb.  Water hits them like battery acid and the thing doesn't notice that there are glasses of it everywhere?

The movie wasn't really about the aliens at all, though.  They were a Maguffin.  The Aliens were the subplot, or, rather, the arbitrary impetus for the plot.  The plot was about Father's loss of faith, and his dealing (rather poorly) with the loss of his wife.  They (the aliens) were, therefore, given secondary consideration only.  Not that this excuses the rather bizare behavior they exhibited, but I think it's significant, anyway.

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--"I doubt if a single individual could be found from the whole of mankind free from some form of insanity.  The only difference is one of degree."
--Desiderius Erasmus
daveblackeye15
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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2003, 11:18:35 AM »

I like Signs, but I didn't catch the idea of "signs of faith" after these signs of god existing the preacher gets his faith back, nice I like it.

-the first rule of fat club-
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AndyC
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« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2003, 12:37:41 PM »

I actually liked the message in Signs (which was explained outright at least a couple of times), but I have to agree that the movie couldn't overcome its flaws. I simply don't buy aliens who have interstellar spacecraft but no protective clothing to wear on a planet where corrosive liquid falls from the sky. I also thought it was bordering on silly that the preacher's brother was a failed baseball player, his wife was dead, his son was asthmatic and his daughter was obsessive-compulsive, all to save the family from an alien invasion so he could get his faith back.

Oh, and now that Nick has explained his position, I can see that I at least somewhat disagree with him on two movies. The South Park movie was about parents who refuse to take responsibility for their own children. The parents neglect their kids throughout the movie, and set a very poor example. The whole time they are crusading and scapegoating, the kids are pretty much left to their own devices. The point is that if they put as much effort into raising their children as they had into their crusade, there would have been no problem. I think Stan even made a speech to that effect.

As for Final Fantasy, Nick gave more of a plot summary than an interpretation. I took the message to be simply that we should work with nature for solutions to our problems, instead of using our technology to bend things to our will. The whole thing with the Zeus cannon wiping out a needed spirit might as well have been about the destruction of the rainforest destroying the cure for cancer.

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