When do you think nudity and foul language is OK?

[Jamtoy]

The post a short while ago about Americans being "afraid" of nudity got me to thinking about when I personally feel nudity and cursing would be acceptible in a movie.   Being a Seminary student, I have always had a distaste for those "nude scenes cause if we don't have them no one will come to see our movie" scenes.  However, I find, in my own personal life, that nudity may be needed to tell certain aspects of a story.  For example, if someone were to make a "realistic" movie set in the Aegean and Archaic Greek periods, 3500 BC-2200 BC, it would have nudity most of the time because the acceptable dress for women had their breasts exposed.  An ancient Egyptian setting would have a similar situation.  Some of the scenes from "Sheindlers List" fit this catagory.  However the sex scenes I felt could be left out but they did emphasize the type of character he was and how he changed at the end.

As far a curse word go, I find I have a similar view.  Some movies they seem to be just thrown in to get a rated R rating, others they make a point.

An example I have came from real life.  When the space shuttle Columbia was destroyed, I was watching a news report that occured about half an hour after the shuttle was reported missing.  It was between a TV anchorman and a former astronaut who were both off screen while the TV showed Houston command.  the reporter was trying to find some hope that the crew would still be alive.  It went like this:

Reporter: When they were over California, they were like 2 hours out of Florida right?
Astronaut: No there were less than 10 minutes away from landing, They are down.
Reporter:  Could they have landed somewhere else.  I mean they have other landing sites...
Astronaut: No.  When they fired the trusters in orbit, they were commited to landing in Florida.  They could not change course. They are lost.
Reporter: (Under his breath) Damn..

Another reporter finished the interview.  I could tell by the way the reporter said "damn" that he was choking up.  I find that no other word would best fit how that reporter felt at that moment when he lost all hope of ever seeing the Columbia crew alive again.

What are your opinions?

[Ash]

I do agree that nudity is necessary for some stories.

It's the gratuitous sex scenes that are unnecessary in most movies unless the plot demands it, which most don't.

Swearing in most films is acceptable to me but again depends on the characters & subject matter.
Imagine "Goodfellas" with no swearing!  It simply wouldn't work.

So my point is, yes they are acceptable ONLY if the story demands it.

[Brother Ragnarok]

As I can imagine most of the people on the board are going to answer, when used right they're fine.
As far as nudity goes, I don't care if it's there.  As I find myself explaining to my girlfriend, a nude scene of a girl just taking a shower isn't sexy.  It's there for the 12 year olds who rented the movie thinking they were getting away with something.  I don't care about it, so I can ignore it, like an inobtrusive background noise.  If, on the other hand, it either advances the story or at least is done in a tasteful and provocative way, go for it.
Cursing is fine if it's not over the top.  I curse a lot in my everyday speaking.  It's not that I'm stupid or have a small vocabulary, it's just the way I talk.  But when a movie strains to make every other word "f**k this" and "motherf**king f**k that" it again comes off as a 12 year old thinking they're getting away with something cool.  As long as the dialogue sounds natural coming from the character and out of the actor's mouth, they can say whatever they want.

Brother R

[jmc]

I totally agree.  Cursing is fine when it seems natural...a lot of cursing in movies doesn't, though....it seems forced and breaks our disbelief when we think "People don't really talk like that..."  I thought that about a lot of the cursing in CABIN FEVER.
Not that they cursed, but they used curse words in ways that seemed unrealistic.

Most nudity is fine by me, except scary nudity!   However, there have been times when I've thought it was pointless...like in the movie BIG or in KINDGERGARTEN COP, especially the latter, which was promoted as a movie for kids.  

I don't know why CLASH OF THE TITANS had to have nudity either, though I sure liked it when I was eight years old!  Today it would bother me, though, if I wanted to show it to my niece or nephew.  

One thing I've noticed is that the sex comedies like AMERICAN PIE seem to really skimp on the nudity...they have maybe one nude scene and that's it.  
I guess they make up for it in raunchier dialogue, or in having lesbian scenes, something you wouldn't have seen 20 years ago.  But I know if the eleven year old me saw these newer movies he'd be really disappointed.

[The Burgomaster]

Nudity and foul language is always okay.  If someone is shelling out big money to make a movie, they should be entitled to use all the nudity and foul language they want.  Those who object don't have to watch or listen.

[ulthar]

The Burgomaster wrote:

> Nudity and foul language is always okay.  If someone is
> shelling out big money to make a movie, they should be entitled
> to use all the nudity and foul language they want.  Those who
> object don't have to watch or listen.
>


I think we must ask, though, why is it necessary?  There were a LOT of very good, very high quality films from the 30's, 40's and 50's that had NO overt nudity, NO foul language, NO overt sex ...

You may argue that 'society changed,' so the movies have adapted to reflect that reality.  True, but part of that is being driven by what is in popular entertainment.  I see 12 year old girls nowadays talking in ways that would have embarrassed me and the other guys when that age, and I think at least part of it they hear it in movies, they hear a lot of it on tv, they hear it in pop music, etc.

In reality, foul language represents the lowest denomenator of society ... its vulgar, shows little respect for others, etc.  When I use a curse word (admittedly, way too often), I feel very low.  That it has become more accepted is one possible indicator of overall societal decay.

But my real point related to cursing in movies is that all too often, it is seen by the younger (and more impressionable) members of the audience as glorified.  When I was a teenager, I used to hang out at a friends house A LOT, because his parents let all of us cuss and swear, and tell dirty jokes, etc, and we watched a lot of R rated movies (they had a satellite, which in those days were NOT common at all, and cable was not available in our area).  Now I regret that time - time not spent with my own family who wanted a little better from me.

I also remember the first time I used the eff word in front of my mother ... I was in High School.  It hurt her; as I said above, the use of such language tends to show disrespect to others.

Please don't take this as a criticism to any of you who cuss a lot....I am guilty of that myself.  This is a self criticism I have no right to direct to others.  All I am saying is that I have come to regret my own patterns of speech.  I know PART of it was influenced by (1) hanging out with people who thought it was cool, (2) believing movies with foul language were 'better' because they were more realistic.

And finally, Burgomaster, you *seem* to suggest that spending money on a movie is the criterion for what is okay in its content.  I imagine you see a limit to that .... right?  I mean, a film depicting an actual murder is not okay, right?  Murder is the extreme of antisocial behavior, but lies on the same continuum as nudity (in our society at this time, anyway) and foul language (in our society at this time).

Just some thoughts, and sorry so long.....

[jmc]

Or is it okay to release a crappy movie just because they spent a lot of money on it?

[The Burgomaster]

jmc wrote:

"Or is it okay to release a crappy movie just because they spent a lot of money on it?"

Yes.  That's what our society of "free enterprise" is based upon.  As long as you stay within the boundaries of the law, you can make and release crappy movies.

[Phutzler]

No, no, no!  Mix one pound carrots & the peas together, THEN add the milk, toads, dogs hind legs & the futtock.

[AndyC]

I suppose the way I would look at it is that appropriate dialogue should seem natural. I don't like it if the profanity is heaped on to the point where it can't be ignored, nor do I enjoy when a lot of effort seems to have been put into keeping it sqeaky clean. It's a question of what is appropriate and necessary.

One exception to this was a bit of movie profanity that shocked me in 1985, mainly due to where I heard it. In Transformers: The Movie, Spike exclaims "s**t, what are we going to do now?" as his ship is about to be swallowed by Unicron. It was just one bad word, except possibly for a "damn" elsewhere. It was not excessive, but it still stuck out like a sore thumb. I considered it very important at the time, and not just because it was a realistic response to Spike's situation. In an animated feature of that time, or any North American mainstream animated feature (especially one so tightly bound to a major toy company), someone must have really fought for that four-letter word. What it said to me was that someone was trying to make more than just a kids' movie, and through this bit of coarse language, challenge the idea of animation being for children. I imagine a lot of parents asked what that word was doing in a cartoon for kids. Being a high school student paying to see it, and realizing I looked like a geek, I was very pleased. I was disappointed that the word was cut from the original video release, but glad to see it back in more recent releases.



Post Edited (11-26-03 13:19)

[onionhead]

The movie that came to my mind when I read this post was Glengarry Glen Ross, on eof the most profanity-riddled films I think I have ever seen; but the film without the obscenities just would not fly.  Likewise as ASHTHECAT pointed out Goodfellas could have been PG-rated without Joe Pesci's abusive tongue.  Otherwise, a little bit goes a long way, and often a silent look or mannerism can speak volumes more that any cuss word could--and I'm not just talking about flipping the bird, either.
As for sex and nudity, less is more too.  Not saying I'm a prude, but I don't think any movie is greater for bearing a breast--or a schlong for that matter.

[AndyC]

onionhead wrote:
> prude, but I don't think any movie is greater for bearing a
> breast--or a schlong for that matter.

Hopefully this doesn't precipitate another discussion of Kevin's Bacon.

[jmc]

Sometimes the only reason to watch certain movies is nudity....like Friday the 13th Part 5, for instance.  

Of course it's "okay" for people to make whatever kind of movie they want...but we have the right to criticize it too, no matter how much money they spent on it.