A message to the grammar Nazi's

[Velvet Brotha]

Amen Brotha! It doesn't bother me when anyone mispells a word on this forum. I just think it's really lame some of the threads that get the most replies. Example: "I hate nudity?" Who gives a s**t! They're probably just p**sed because they're so fat that they can't see their wee-wee. : ) Let's talk about movies people, not f**ked up opinions...

[Brother Ragnarok]

Hey there, bud, I know my phrase forms!  But I'm with you Evil, the "Your a really cool person" people bug me too.  Same with pretty much any internet slang, i.e. using 'u' as an abbreviated 'you'.  C'mon, it's two more goddamn letters, just type 'em.  Sorry Nick, I'm a writing major, I notice these things.

Brother R



Post Edited (12-14-03 02:20)

[onionhead]

Y R U so uptite about internet slang?  :)
IMHO, this subject makes one LOL  :-(
ahh, whatever.
Personally, typos and illiteracy doesn't bother me, as I have read some of my own posts.  I type by the hunt and peck method, and sometimes I post before I proofread,  hence errors.  If you have a good opinion, who cares if you are Emily Dickenson?

[SkullNinja]

<>

Hey, now. What doing being Police Woman have to do with this?

Hint to the under 35 crowd - you probably wont get this.

[raj]

LOL!  But then I am over 35.

My two pennies on this thread:
1) If you are going to say something, make sure readers can understand it.  If you want me to spend time reading your thoughts, don't also make me spend time trying to figure out what you mean.  It is arrogant to say that you don't have to spend time making your (I'm not trying to single anyone out, just speaking generally) message understandable, but I have to spend the time reading the post as well as the brain power to decypher it.

2) You're (again, a general, generic you) also devaluing your message with bad grammar/spelling; it tells me that you don't think your message is all that important.  

3) I don't try to correct other's grammar/spelling, because I don't expect perfection in either area; I sometimes misspell, or screw up grammar on bbs because they're informal, but I do usually reread my posts, go back and edit-- even, at time, go to a dictionary.

In short, mistakes happen, I don't get too worked up about it, but do not accept "I've got poor English skills" as an excuse not to try and improve your writing.  How you say something does impact how others receive your message.

Damn, that's an awful lot for two cents.

PS.  It's is a contraction of it is.  The possessive its has no apostrophe.  That one is my pet peeve.

[Cullen]

I'm under 35 and I got it.

Course, I'm not that much under 35...

[Ash]

I admit that I'm guilty of messing up the "it's" and "its" from time to time.

That and adding dots....like this....
Hehe!



Post Edited (12-14-03 15:15)

[ulthar]

wickednick, I have thought carefully about this and have read the other posts.  Some of what I say will overlap with theirs.  In any case, PLEASE PLEASE don't take any of what I am about to say too personally, I simply want to make a point.

When I first started reading this board, one of the first posts I saw by you was you complaining about people complaining about your spelling/grammar.  As I read your posts, my 'first impression' of you was that you were a child, say about 13 or 14, and therefore I did not take MUCH of what you said very seriously, and I often skipped (or barely read) your posts.  I thought this for several reasons:

1.  You post with poor spelling ... which is acceptable TO A POINT (typos do happen, and I think we can all forgive them).  For me, it is hard to associate poor spelling/grammar with 'adult' where I usually equate adult with some level of education in this country.

2.  You get very defensive when others point out your mistakes, and say things like 'if you don't like it efff off.'  This heightened my supposition about your age because I associate maturity with an attitude of self improvement.  You know, how about 'thanks for pointing that out, I am TRYING to do better so please be patient with me while I learn to improve my English skills.'

3.  You made a comment like "this is not English class."  So what??  School is about teaching you LIFE'S skills ... your brain does not dump 1+1=2 just because you are not in math class anymore, right?  I taught college level Chemistry for years, and I always had students complain when I told them the first day of class 'spelling counts, and all answers must be in complete, grammatically correct sentences.'  Some complained, 'this is not English class,' but they generally did one of three things: (a) adopted (ie, grew up) to fit reality, (b) dropped the course after failing several tests because if they lacked the self discipline to spell and write correctly, they generally lacked the self discipline to learn chemistry, or (c) failed the course for similar reasons mentioned in (b).  I did not tolerate mental laziness in my classes, since mental laziness in a Chemistry Lab can get someone hurt.  Oh, and by the way, spelling DOES count: ethanol you can drink (in limited quantities, I hope) at a party, but ethanal will kill you.

The way you present yourself impacts how others will see you.  It's the old "think classy, you'll be classy" line from "Bull Durham."  When in grad school, I tried an experiment.  I let my hair grow very long, I quit shaving for about a year and generally looked like a scumbag.  I wanted to see if others would treat me like I was a scumbag or if they'd wait to see if I had something interesting to say as one would expect from a Ph.D. candidate from one of the nation's oldest and most prestigious institutions of higher learning.  Guess what I found out?  Give you a hint - my hair is clean cut (though not always short, it it generally fairly neat) and I hate going into public without shaving (if I am wearing a beard, it stays neatly trimmed).  That experiment was an important life's lesson for me.  The way you speak or write can cast similar reflections.

In fact, having seen pictures of me from those days, my wife has repeatedly told me that had she met me then, or if I still looked like that we when met, she would have never given me the time of day.  And that is not biggotry on her part - to her, I just looked scary.

Anyway, so now I have learned by your own comment that you are 22 years old, and I have to say, I was surprised.  The bottom line is, as others here have pointed out, you are only doing yourself a disservice.  You obviously have some interesting knowledge and things to say about movies (and I am sure other things as well), it sure would be a shame to dissuade others to read or listen.

In either case, I think it is fair to say that you are among friends here and any comment made (by a regular at least) is meant with the kindest intentions.  Good Luck, and hang in there...

[wickednick]

Well I'll tell you guys im stubborn, and I still stick by what I said. I never complain about someones spelling or grammar errors when I see them, because I simply don't find it diffucult to figure these things out.I simply do not agree that how you write it has a huge impact on what is said.As long as it is coherent I don't care, I don't see the point in picking over some ones simple grammar errors when you really should be talking about the subject.
Also (and this is in no way is some kind of insult, or words of spite) I found it rather surprising that so many of you are so much older than me.But your opinions on my own maturity are probably because I tend to be highly sarcastic,and opiniated and that gives my posts a some what imature style.
Well in any case I think I have been having to talk to much about my self in this post.I didn't write it because I was feeling insulted, I was writing it because I was annoyed when someone had a good post and they get responses saying that they misspelled something or the didn't use a comma or apostrophe correctly, that is what bugs me.

[-=NiGHTS=-]

Either way:

Writing is a very, very important life skill.  Why spend time being lazy about it when you can constantly be honing it to a razor edge?

[JohnL]

There's a difference between making typos or occasionally spelling a word wrong and using improper grammer even after someone points it out.

[AndyC]

I really don't see why someone should be called a nazi, just for having standards and expecting things to be done properly.

I find Nick's attitude to be very disturbing, because of the larger problem it represents. Writing standards are slipping, and not enough people seem to care. Either that, or their own language skills are so poor that they don't notice. I even see professional writers making silly mistakes and misusing words. For people who do care about things such as spelling, punctuation and sentence structure, it is unpleasant -- almost difficult -- to read, with the mistakes as jarring as potholes in a road.

I think Ash has said it beautifully. We are communicating in writing, and how we are understood depends entirely on how well we write. First impressions are also based on our writing. Yes, we can, in time, come to appreciate that someone is smarter than his writing would suggest (although with intelligence and education, there should be no excuse for poor language skills). Personally, I wouldn't be satisfied with being regarded as a foreigner, a child, or a little slow until people got to know me better.

I know some people have a tougher time with language than others. It's the attitude that makes the difference. I'm willing to cut someone a little slack if he's doing his best, but if I know he's just being sloppy, I'm offended.

It's a matter of responsibility. Someone is not willing to make the tiny effort to distinguish between "there," "their" and "they're," but instead considers it to be my responsibility to figure out which he meant to use. That p**ses me off.

It's not my job to mentally replace "grammarical" with "grammatical," or to consider all the possible meanings a sentence might have, depending on where I insert the punctuation someone else left out. Do it right (at least try to do it right) or don't do it at all.

I don't think that's too much to ask. It's no more than I expect of myself.



Post Edited (12-16-03 08:45)

[Diablo44]

I sit just about in the middle on this.  I read more often than post on this board, and I find that a well written message (i.e. - correct grammar, spelling, punctuation) is easier and more enjoyable to read.  But I don't think it's necessary to correct someone on their writing skills either.    As I go through the posts, I know which posters (postees? messaginarians?) have intelligent insight to share (in my opinion) and which don't, so those are the ones I read, regardless of grammar, spelling, etc.

Man, don't you hate those fencepost sitters?  The pragmatic types (read: wimps).  Sorry. . sorry. .

let's just continue with the movie talk, dangit!

[wickednick]

Andy C wrote
I really don't see why someone should be called a nazi, just for having standards and expecting things to be done properly.

I was being sarcastic Andy, I know you are not bad people, and didn't mean to offend any one by the title.Its rather hard to express sarcasm in text so you usualy have to take what people write with a grain of salt.

[dean]

Most of the posts I've seen that have spelling corrections have either been to p**s off the 'offending' person when in an arguement or when they are messing around.

I guess this is the sort of thing that gets up people's noses a bit.  My friend is a terrible writer and speller, even though he is extremley [and I mean EXTREMELY] well read, so it does bug me when he mispells a word that I know he should know.

That being said, this is probably my neatest post I have done.  I'm used to chatting online so I never really bothered about proper presentation, although I am a bit of a Nazi about it when it comes to writing when not online. [but only to myself, not others!]

From what I can gather, many of the people who post on this board probably read quite alot [thinking about 'Favourite Books posts'] So I'm guessing they are like me and get a little irritated when some grammatical errors occur, but like me, most move past that and read the damn post rather than nitpicking every detail.  I know that I probably spell some words different to Americans, and that might annoy some people, but as yet noone has publicly stoned me for it so it mustn't be that bad.

Presentation does help, I admit, but it's not essential, so hopefully everyone will respond to the merits of the content of the post rather than whether it is 'your' or 'you're' etc