OT: Coffee Anyone?

[Mr_Vindictive]

What kind of issues are you having?

Broadband or dial up?

[Mr_Vindictive]

Ulthar,

Heh, sounds like some of the support we have working here.  Unfortunatly, the ISP I work for is also a Telco.  We offer both analog phone service and VOIP.  The problem with this is that the owner cares more about the Telco part than the ISP part.  The is extremely evident when there is an issue and he chooses to ignore it.

Recently we replaced our Radius server.  There was never an explanation as to why it was to be done, just that it had to be.  After installing the Radius server, over 1000 of our customers could not connect to the internet.  It was due to the fact that the new server wasn't syncing up with our Rodopi billing databases (we own two isps).  

This problem went on for about two days without a resolution.  The owner was convinced that all 1000 people were typing in their un/passes wrong.  Finally, behind his back we got the server synced up with everything and everything seems to run pretty smoothly at the moment.


As for email issues like you mentioned, it seems that our company doesn't deal too well with them.  You have no idea how many times I have heard "Well, we only promise a connection to the internet.  Email is only a free extra."  This means that if someone has a constant problem with email, we don't have to support it very far, which some of the techs take to heart.  I would be helluva p**sed if my email quit, therefore I troubleshoot as much as possible.

[The Burgomaster]

It's funny . . . I drink at least 8 cups of black coffee a day at work.  I also drink coffee when I eat breakfast in restaurants.  But I almost NEVER drink coffee at home.  This seems really strange to me.  I can go an entire weekend without drinking coffee and I don't even think about it.  But on Monday morning I grab a cup as soon as I get to work.  I drink cup after cup all day.  But when I'm at home, I don't miss it.  I don't get headaches, I don't get the shakes, I don't get cravings.  This seems veruy weird.  I think that drinking coffee at work is just a habit.  I don't think I really like it or that I'm addicted to the caffeine.  I just think that it's a habit for me to drink coffee when I'm working.

[Flangepart]

Decaff, with additives (Flavored creamers), or mocha and espresso.

I use the Public Library computer system. Saves me a lot of trouble, but no downloading, hardly ever get to watch movie trailers , and no sound! Yeesh!
And the stupid filter kept be out of some links, and acter like Cold Fusion Video was a porn site....a fact i like to remind Nathan of! He he he...

[Chopper]

interesting point Burgo. maybe it's just more of a psychological dependancy for some people who feel they need it every day, not an addiction.

[Chopper]

I can never drink any caffiene during the night on weekdays or else I'd be up forever. But on the weekends: IT'S ON!

[JohnL]

>My point is, have the information that SHOWS the problem is theirs...get help in
>doing this if you need to (you already did). Document all calls, emails, etc, that
>you make with them on the issue, date time, who you talked to, etc. Be
>reasonable in dealing with them...but clear and firm. While you are paying for a
>service, they are bound to provide it (IANAL but as I understand it, that IS a
>contractural relationship) As a LAST resort, talk to a lawyer, who will make brown
>gravy of their entrails if you've documented everything.

The problem is that they not only claim that there's nothing wrong, they also claim that they are completely unable to duplicate the problems I'm having. Of course they didn't tell me that last part, they don't tell me ANYTHING about what they've done to troubleshoot this. The only reason I know they claim they can't duplicate the problem is because I contacted the New York Consumer Protection Bureau, who contacted my ISP and then wrote me back with a copy of their response. Unfortunately, since the ISP, LocalNet, disputes my claim that there is something wrong, the CPB said they couldn't do anything. Silly me, I thought the whole point of consumer protection was to protect people from dishonest companies...

Another thing that gets me is that every time I manage to get someone on the phone who sounds like they have some clout (supervisor, engineer) and who seems genuinely interested in helping me, I either never hear from them again, or I get a cookie-cutter response of "Nothing wrong here, sorry we can't help you." Maybe I'm paranoid but it seems like they don't know they're supposed to give me the run-around when I talk to them and then they get told to give me the company line when they try to investigate.

>What kind of issues are you having?
>
>Broadband or dial up?

Dialup. Basically here's what's happening;

I download a lot of binary files from the newsgroups. For some time I've been using a little bandwidth monitor called NetStat Live (www.analogx.com). From the time I installed it to the time the problems started, my downloads would typically register a steady 6.4K a second. I realize that isn't taking compression into account, but that's about what I would get no matter what type of data I was downloading (UUEncoded, yEnc, raw zip files from web sites etc). I usually have it running anytime I'm online so that I check and see if there are any problems, or if a burst of line noise might have knocked my connection down to 28.8K or whatever. NSL provides a line graph of the speed and it was typically an almost perfectly straight line.

On July 21st of last year, I went to check my speed and the graph was all over the place. It looked like a mountain range and the average download speed was about 2K. This happened no matter where I was downloading from. LocalNet blamed this on line noise, then on the phone lines, my modem configuration, the sites I was downloading from etc. I can disprove each of those;

1. My system/modem  - I didn't make any changes that would affect dialup networking. The speed increases and gets steadier late at night. I don't have a problem with download speed if I use Juno, the free internet service. Also, the more downloads I run simultaneously, the better the overall download speed.

2. Phone line - My modem's diagnostic data indicates that there isn't a significant amount of line noise, certainly nothing that would account for the poor performance I'm getting. My evaluation of the data was confirmed by US Robotic's tech support. The fact that simultaneous downloads improve the download rate also indicates that line noise isn't the problem.

3. The sites - I can download from the same sites at full speed using Juno at the same times as LocalNet is giving me poor speed.

I've sent them detailed descriptions of all this as well as printouts showing the speed fluctuating like crazy, comparisons with Juno etc. I've also sent them the results of tests conducted by a former Supernews employee who is regarded by his co-workers as one of the best troubleshooters in the field. His comment after spending just a short time testing my account: "I didn't realize how bad it was." LoclaNet's response to all of this? "There's nothing wrong here. We cannot guarantee any set download speed. What you're seeing is normal for dialup accounts. There's nothing more we can do for you."

It seems pretty clear to me that the problem is related to the number of people using their service. Late at night, the speed is much better. In the evenings and on the weekends, the speed is worse. Also, the day of the East coast blackout I still had power and was getting great download speeds, probably because the majority of people who would normally be using the service weren't able to get online.

Not that this is the only problem with LocalNet, just the most serious. In addition, I have to use the news server that requires I logon because about half the time, the non-logon server tells me that whatever IP address I'm currently assigned isn't authorized to access it. A supervisor even once told me that I *HAVE* to use the logon one because the non-logon one would *NOT* let me on. A few times, logging onto the news server (really Suprenews) has failed because it doesn't get any response from LocalNet's Radius server. When I reported this in email, I was told to call tech support to resolve this problem! Occasionally their authentication server goes off into limbo and I'm unable to logon. Usually it corrects itself after a few minutes, but a few times it's gone on long enough that I had to call them. When I do, the first words out of the tech support guys mouth are; "Ok, I want you to go into Dialup Networking..." I tell them to check it themselves and they come back with; "Yeah, it doesn't seem to be working..." Oh did I mention that the DNS server occasionally takes 30-45 seconds or more to resolve a name? Plus they're filtering all ICMP packets so I can't use ping or traceroute to try and troubleshoot anything.

So in a nutshell, LocalNet is having trouble keeping a dialup connection saturated.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted you to have an accurate idea of what's been going on. Any ideas?

[ulthar]

JohnL wrote:


> Sorry for the long post, but I wanted you to have an accurate
> idea of what's been going on. Any ideas?

Change ISP's and call a lawyer to try to recoup money you spend with them while trying to get help from them.  As for the latter, you may not be able to get anything.

Um.  Have you checked their Terms of Service?  It is probably true that they don't guarantee a d/l rate, but there may be something in the ToS you can leverage, or maybe marketing info on their web site. SOMETHING that says there service is better or competitive to others.

Have you spoken to the head of the company?  The BIG boss?  Letters are probably better than phone calls, at this point.  That points something in writing and is very difficult to dispute later (if you keep a copy, or even better, mail it return receipt).

It all depends on how much time you want to invest fighting them.  IF you have an alternative ISP, talk to them.  Tell them the problem you are having with their competitor.  Tell them you want to change, but are wary of the frying pan into the fire syndrome.

On the tech side, it sure sounds to me like you've done your homework and can show the problem is theirs.  Side by side data between their service and another is pretty strong evidence.  Seems to me like you have a pretty good case, at least for them to admit the problem is on their end of things, if you want to keep pushing it.

Just my opinion.  IANAL.

PS:  Crap like this really p's me off.  Really.  There are so many companies out there that really try to put customers first, and really try to provide good services.  Yeah, I would have thought a consumer protection group would have been in place for consumer protection.

Another tact you might try is the local 'troubleshooter' on your local news.  Those can be quite effective, as NO COMPANY wants that kind of negative publicity.  If I went this route, I'd focus on the lack of assistance and response, rather than the actual problem (you don't want to get to techy in such a 'news story').

[odinn7]

JohnL...
Last year I switched to Localnet for my home use and I only stayed with them for about 6 months. Very, Very slow and no, they didn't want to hear about it either. That's what you get when you pay 9.95/month; they don't care. I dumped them and went back to Socantel which is local for me and I have nothing but praise for them. Dump Localnet and don't look back.

[raj]

Mmmmmm, coffee.  Can't have a day go by without it.

[JohnL]

>Um. Have you checked their Terms of Service? It is probably true that they don't
>guarantee a d/l rate, but there may be something in the ToS you can leverage,
>or maybe marketing info on their web site. SOMETHING that says there service
>is better or competitive to others.

Let's see, their web site says they offer "FAST Dialup Connection", the dialup service agreement says "LocalNet provides access speeds up to 56K - individual connect speeds may vary due to your modem's capacity, phone line clarity, or local telephone company switching conditions and equipment." (while this sounds like them covering themselves for situations like mine, it says "connect speeds", it doesn't say anything about download speeds), and on the About LocalNet page, it says "LocalNet's goal is to provide the industry's best value in dial-up internet access." and "LocalNet will continue to invest in the best equipment and personnel available in order to provide satisfying Internet access for all of our subscribers. That means no busy signals, fast throughput times and expert Technical Support and Customer Service. We will, at all times, remember that our subscriber's support is crucial to our success."

I've quoted all this to them. No effect.

>Have you spoken to the head of the company? The BIG boss? Letters are
>probably better than phone calls, at this point.

I wrote a letter addressed to the president and at the same time, I also sent one addressed to the systems administrator. A few days later I got an email from the head engineer, who I'd once talked to on the phone (more about that in a second) which said (not exact, but close) "We've received your letters and have recently implemented some changes which should help with your situation." There was no change in the service level.

>It all depends on how much time you want to invest fighting them.

Well, I can be pretty stubborn. I've become a little obsessed with proving that there IS something wrong.

>Another tact you might try is the local 'troubleshooter' on your local news.

I've thought of that, but I'm not sure that poor service from an ISP really rates when they're doing stories on landlords who haven't fixed the heat in their building and things like that.

About the head engineer; At one point I noticed that WhoIs showed that all of LocalNet's IP addresses were registered to a company called PaeTec. LocalNet had also told me that another company provided their dialup access in my area. So I wrote a letter to PaeTec, figuring maybe they could find the problem. They called me back and arranged a conference call with one of their engineers and the head engineer from LocalNet. Unfortunately at the time i didn't think to ask what the exact relationship between the companies was. The LocalNet engineer did all the talking and from the things he said, it sounds like LocalNet DOES own and manage the equipment in question. At one point I mentioned a routing problem I had reported (packets sent to LocalNet IP addresses not currently in use were looping between the last two hops) and he said he fixed it as soon as he was made aware of it.

Anyway, he said he'd tested the connections and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I asked if he tested it at night and he said no, only during the day. I suggested he try it at night and he promised he would. He also sounded like he was annoyed at tech support for not telling him that this was an ongoing problem. He said he only heard about it once, checked it and assumed the problem had gone away. He said something like "I'm going to look into this and see if I can't figure out why you're having these problems. I'm also going to talk to tech support to make sure that they report these kinds of problems to me in the future." His response the next day? "Nothing wrong here. The internet is too unpredictable to guarantee any set download speed. Sorry we can't help you."

The one question I've asked over and over and which LocalNet has never answered is; If DSL and cable can deliver download speeds of 100K or more a second, why is LocalNet having problems keeping up with a 56K modem?

>Last year I switched to Localnet for my home use and I only stayed with them for
>about 6 months. Very, Very slow and no, they didn't want to hear about it either.

Mind if I ask where you're located? I'm in Connecticut on the East coast.

[Mr_Vindictive]

John,

Here is my idea:

GET ANOTHER ISP.  The issue is obviously something on their side!  If your download rates are good with Juno, switch to them.  Or, there is another national dial up company I'm familiar with that has unlimited dial up for around 6.00-7.00 dollars a month for great service.


Can't think of the name of it though.  I'll repost when I remember.

[odinn7]

"Mind if I ask where you're located? I'm in Connecticut on the East coast."

I'm in North East Pennsylvania. I pick my battles and had decided that it would just be easier to select another service rather than fighting with them about it. I was roped in by them originally because of their low price but I determined that the saying "you get what you pay for" was true in this case.

[FearlessFreep]

Mmmmmm, coffee. Can't have a day go by without it.

Read most of this this morning drinking some great piñon coffee my wife sent me from New Mexico

[JohnL]

>GET ANOTHER ISP. The issue is obviously something on their side! If your >download rates are good with Juno, switch to them.

Good download rates are the only thing Juno has going for them, everything else about Juno sucks. They don't even offer Usenet access.

>Or, there is another national dial up company I'm familiar with that has unlimited >dial up for around 6.00-7.00 dollars a month for great service.

Along with unlimited access, I also need one with unlimited access to a premium Usenet provider.

>I'm in North East Pennsylvania.

That figures. I have a theory that they have something screwed up in the entire New England area. I once called one of the New York access numbers and got the same poor performance.